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RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited.   You are logged in as Guest
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devilhand

 

Posts: 648
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

I see many good players sitting badly, hunched over the guitar (we often can't see this because we tend to watch from the front), but their hands, arms, shoulders and necks are loose and relaxed and they play brilliantly.

What I understood is as long as you don't practice regularly with bad posture, how you sit and hold the guitar during a performance is left to you to decide. The main thing is you feel comfortable and play with no tension in muscles when you perform.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 29 2020 23:14:41
 
James Ashley Mayer

 

Posts: 99
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

I think head-neck relationship is important. Try to keep your head over your body, not in front of it, but do that without force or tension. The way to achieve that is to not pull it forward and down.... Take a photo or still and put a piece of paper over the head, look at the body and think where the head should be. Then move the paper and see where it is... do the same the other way round, look at the head and cover the body with the paper.


Mark, you quoted me just before writing this. Does that mean you think my posture (or whatever term you want to use) is poor? I used to get tired and sore from sitting cross-legged or using a foot-stool. Since I've started using the support (https://www.neckup.com/) I feel good for long periods of time. I do see that I hang my head forward frequently, mostly to look at what I'm playing......which I tend to do during difficult passages.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2020 15:28:37
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3100
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer

quote:

Mark, you quoted me just before writing this. Does that mean you think my posture (or whatever term you want to use) is poor?


I think the way we use ourselves is important. Regarding the relationships of body parts, try watching your video again with the sound off and look at where your head and neck are in relation to your body.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2020 11:00:29
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 648
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to mark indigo

This is a quote from a book Guitar technique rationalized by Julian Byzantine.

"In order to achieve balanced posture, one should be positioned towards the front edge of the chair. This will enable the spine to be maintained more easily in an upright manner. On the other hand, if a player sits in the middle of the chair, or towards the back edge of the chair, it will often create a tendency for the lumbar region (lower back region) to curve outwards"

I always thought sitting on the front edge of a chair was bad for your back. Now this book says the opposite. What if I sit in the middle or on the back edge of a chair without having a C-shape back?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2020 11:45:43
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3100
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer

quote:

posture (or whatever term you want to use)

it's not that i prefer a different term for the same thing, it's that I don't find the concept the term refers to particularly helpful.

I remember seeing a young pianist who had dropped out of music college due to extreme back pain, but there was nothing "wrong" with her back ie. no injury or disease that medics could identify. She also had perfect "posture". She sat in exactly the position she was told was correct. Unfortunately the way she achieved that shape was by hyper contracting all the muscles in her back, causing her so much pain when she sat at the piano that she couldn't play.

There are also many who have poor "posture" yet don't have pain or other problems, and play wonderfully. Probably because they create their poor "posture" in a relatively efficient way.

In general, though, I would suggest that what people call "bad posture" is associated with the type of problems we expect, back pain, tendonitis etc. There is also the issue of time. Just because someone who slouches in their chair doesn't have pain, doesn't mean they won't develop problems over time. Crucially I think the "bad posture" is probably a symptom rather than a cause. The real problem is what I/you/they thinks I/you/they need to do to play guitar, and how much force you need to employ.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2020 13:32:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12194
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to devilhand

Getting used to playing anything you need to in two, three, or even more different postures is ideal, so that you can move between them during performance.... it will save your body a lot of pain if you let yourself move around a lot.

For the head neck problem (looking over at fingerboard), I recommend practicing in front of a mirror, head up eyes forward. Then run through stuff either eyes closed or imagine you are staring at the mirror even though you are not.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2020 15:15:05
 
ric

 

Posts: 59
Joined: Dec. 27 2010
 

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer

I also agree with the push ups, as a few years back I had been having some numbness in my left hand, and I noticed that the half pushups (knees on the ground) I'd been doing seems to help. I haven't had any left hand problems for a few years and my guess is that there is some good being done with the lateral movement that happens when your elbows are moving sort of at a 45 degree angle to your wrists. Whatever it is, this seems to work for me.
Great you are up and running again, keep up the work!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2020 15:34:28
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 648
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Getting used to playing anything you need to in two, three, or even more different postures is ideal, so that you can move between them during performance.... it will save your body a lot of pain if you let yourself move around a lot.

For the head neck problem (looking over at fingerboard), I recommend practicing in front of a mirror, head up eyes forward. Then run through stuff either eyes closed or imagine you are staring at the mirror even though you are not.

Thanks for the hint. First I thought the ideal posture must be always in classical position during both practicing and playing. Then I realised it's not always that way. To me, performing in classical position would make flamenco guitarist look lame.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2020 22:43:32
 
James Ashley Mayer

 

Posts: 99
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

For the head neck problem (looking over at fingerboard), I recommend practicing in front of a mirror, head up eyes forward. Then run through stuff either eyes closed or imagine you are staring at the mirror even though you are not.


Most of the time, I do practice in front of the mirror as I want to see how my technique looks compared to the masters but I've found that watching my hands in the mirror helps me relax. Indeed, that may well be because it keeps my head up and forward.

Another plus of practicing directing into to a big mirror (or any sound-reflective surface) is that it raises "my" volume so I don't have to play as hard to get the tone I want. Kinda like hearing myself from the audience.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 1 2020 15:53:30
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3100
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer

quote:

Most of the time, I do practice in front of the mirror
you could also try another mirror to the side and checking your head neck relationship from that angle....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 1 2020 16:43:19
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 648
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer

quote:

Most of the time, I do practice in front of the mirror as I want to see how my technique looks compared to the masters

Are you telling us you try/tried to copy maestro's right hand position? If this is the case, I won't recommend this. I used to think that way as well. Now I see this differently because the right hand position varies according to physical differences. This is a quote from a book

"Don't succumb to modelling your hand on a particular individual player, or adopting pre-conceived ideas without first acquiring an understanding of basic principles, after which adjustments can be made to suit one's personal needs"

Talking about watching hands (both right and left) in the mirror, it's highly recommended for beginners. I try to watch them all the time asking myself Is my right hand position still correct while practicing? Are my left hand fingers close enough to the corresponding frets or do they tense in reaction to other fingers that are in use? I will watch them until it gets automatized. I think it has something to do with the concept of muscle memory.
My problem finger is left hand pinky which reacts sensitive to what the ring finger does. I wish they were more independent.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 1 2020 18:41:06
 
Cervantes

 

Posts: 440
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer

James,

Sound great. I was anticipating an Alzapua towards the end but it never came.
I too had tendonitis, I sprained my left wrist roller-blading so I couldn't play so I just played with my right hand and over did it so both hands were injured and wearing braces. Now back to normal, I don't play enough to cause a problem.

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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2020 4:08:42
 
James Ashley Mayer

 

Posts: 99
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Fandangos clip, feedback solicited. (in reply to Cervantes

quote:

Sound great. I was anticipating an Alzapua towards the end but it never came


Thanks. I know the part you mean and I just couldn't nail it like I wanted to. I'm actually working on alzapua and extended legato (two of my most apparent weaknesses) these last couple of weeks and will try to record another clip soon.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2020 23:05:24
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