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JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

Headstock angle 

I’ve come to associate a steeper scarf joint angle of say ~ 15 degrees with flamenco guitars. Maybe this is just based on the guitars I’ve had. I used a 13.5 degree scarf joint for this reyes I’m building and to me it looks more classical. Since the headstock is so small I don’t think it could support much more of a ramp on the tuner slots. I’m curious what you guys use.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2019 17:24:32
 
RobF

Posts: 252
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to JasonM

I’ve always thought the steeper angle was a holdover from using pegs, either from converting peg heads to slotted or from just sticking with the same angle for either style, regardless.

The angle on my old Conde slot head is pretty steep, I think somewhere between 18-20 degrees, and I love that guitar. I prefer to use a shallower angle for my slot heads, however. Right now I’m using 14 degrees, although I’ve at times gone as low as 11 for classicals. There isn’t really any definitive answer, I guess, it all depends on how the maker designs the head and slot placement. But I don’t think having a steeper angle makes a guitar any more “flamenco” or benefits it in any way, it’s just cosmetics and myth, IMO.

When I’ve done peg heads I’ve used 18 degrees.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2019 23:42:41
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to RobF

Ahh peg heads! That makes a lot of sense now. I like the the look though. Maybe because there aren’t many aesthetic details to make a flamenco guitar stand out from a classical. That and orange dye and a fake PdL autograph
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2019 4:43:07
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 1839
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to JasonM

quote:


Ahh peg heads! That makes a lot of sense now.


There is really no need to put a steep angle on flamenco peg heads anymore because of the mechanical pegs, sold today, that don't move up with wear.

The old peg styles used to wear out in the holes and gravitate up, so there had to be some compensation for the wear factor.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2019 18:44:22
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to JasonM

I always thought the steeper headstock angle was so that the string has the correct breaking angle as the string doesn't go right inside the headstock like with machine heads. does the steeper angle also influence the string tension in a way?

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My name is Jalal.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2019 20:06:41
 
Echi

 

Posts: 572
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to JasonM

Whereas the geometry allows a reasonable pressure of the strings on the nut, that’s enough for the purpose. Beyond that, there is no improvement.
The traditional use of pegs is a very reasonable explanation even though more recently the majority of the makers don’t seem to make any difference between classical and Flamenco headstock.

In my case I used to have a Josè Lopez Bellido with peg heads which I converted to a slotted headstock. I didn’t notice any relevant change in playability or tone after the conversion. Tuning machines are just more precise and reliable in many situations.
That Bellido guitar was born with a regular angle between neck and headstock inspite of the pegs. Bellido used to glue a layer of rosewood also on the opposite side of the headstock when mounting pegs.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 28 2019 14:11:35
 
mango

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 2 2019
 

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to JasonM

In my opinion with a shallower headstock angle it is easyer to setup the guitar for a good tuning behavior. There is less tention on the nut so the strings can slide better in their slots which results in a better response when turning the tuning knobs.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2019 13:46:23
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3736
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear



There is really no need to put a steep angle on flamenco peg heads anymore because of the mechanical pegs, sold today, that don't move up with wear.

The old peg styles used to wear out in the holes and gravitate up, so there had to be some compensation for the wear factor.




There are diverse interpretations to each of questions / matters. Some from different aspects / approach, some on less pointy ways or addressing side phenomenon, some in erring, and then some, respectively often just one, which simply hits main functional core.

Nice about the latter being how they tend to slide down synapsis and hit cortex, like a strike in bowling. ... Probably, as empirics will have pathed reception beforehand.

And usually they will come in like poetry. Prosa poetry, so to say.

That´s what makes the luthery thread interesting to me as layman.
-


BTW; I would had thought that a steeper angle helps an axe to stay in tune. But, as nothing the like has been said here, suppose to have been wrong, respectively that the little of enhanced friction won´t do much, as long as structure and tuners won´t be giving in.

Aesthetically, to me all too steep angles (like on lutes or ouds) look a bit strange, -and in practice it would make me worry about accidental damage.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2019 12:49:21
 
David LaPlante

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Mar. 7 2016
 

RE: Headstock angle (in reply to JasonM

If one uses pegs, a steeper angle may make the guitar difficult to fit in one of the modern molded cases.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2019 16:32:22
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