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Do I have a loose strut?   You are logged in as Guest
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El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

Do I have a loose strut? 

Hi.

I think I have a loose strut as I have checked everything else I can think of. I do tend to bash it as the cracks, all glued together (though not cleated), testify.

Could I ask how you would identify and fix the problem? I can buy a mirror and I have some glue. I made the guitar ('El Burdo') too so although not in any way a luthier I have a rough understanding. And obviously, no money...

I demo the problem here (recorded directly on Quicktime using AKG 1000S).



Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2019 17:45:50
 
RobF

Posts: 252
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Doesn’t sound healthy.

It might be a loose strut, but I’ve also heard that kind of metallic rattling when a tuner is loose, so it’s worth checking that area out, too. You can start by tapping in the area of the headstock, as a rattle there might be pointing to the tuners. The problem with rattles, however, is it can be hard to pinpoint the origin just by listening, as the rattle can sometimes seem to be coming from more than one location at once.

If the tuners check out OK then you can start by applying pressure on the top and back over the locations of the various braces while plucking the string and see if the rattling stops or changes. Alternatively, take the strings off and tap around the guitar while listening for the rattle, then reach inside and hold the brace in question to see of the rattle stops.

Hope that helps, good luck and remember, everything can be fixed!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2019 23:29:09
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3736
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

I havn´t listen to the example.
Just want to say that at times rattling can also be caused by lose strings end behind the bridge.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2019 13:13:35
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Hi RobF - it has pegs which of course are tight so I don't think the problem is there. I've pressed the top in a sort of unstructured way but it's not been precise. In fact, the buzz is not always there.

Ruphus - yes, I would look there but it's a 12 hole bridge and all the end bits are threaded through the adjacent loop so that's not the problem.

At least you hear the problem. Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2019 17:57:42
 
SEden

 

Posts: 837
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Quite possibly yes. The rattle does resemble that of a snare drum. Tap lightly around the sound board to narrow the areas that should be investigated further. Once you have established which strut/struts are loose, get a piece of frsh paper and try and slide it under the lose struts corner first. Push it as far under as it will go so you have an idea of how much gluing you will need to do. Look with a mirror to get a visual.

From there I would awkwardly put quite a bit of glue on the paper that is on the otherside of the strut and pull it out. To clamp I use rare earth magnets. Or put something on the strut that is fairly heavy and leave the guitar on a neck rest front side down.

Hope that helps

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2019 17:43:12
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to SEden

Thanks Steve - that is a great idea with the paper, both as a measure and an applicator. I think I might try and stick a light source in there to help locate the struts a bit more directly too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2019 22:34:15
 
Jim Kirby

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Jul. 14 2011
From: Newark, DE, USA

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Check the nut and clearance at first freet too. I have a guitar that played well for years and then started buzz/rattling like crazy. Turns out the D string was touching the first fret, which I think may have popped up a little.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2019 12:07:13
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Hi Jim - I don't think there's a problem there as the problem is evident with a capo on. I played it in open position so that people didn't suggest it was the capo :-).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2019 16:53:38
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Well, I've bought some magnets (thanks Steve) but also a set of three sprung toilet roll holders as Dan Erlewine used them before he bought his $93 (each) scissor clamps. I think I've found the problem (thanks RobF) on the back struts.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 22 2019 22:37:15
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

I have reached an impasse in trying to fix this problem. I have bought the magnets (not very strong but if lined up they could maybe pull a strut closed) and a relatively large light source and mirror (for make-up I think - would a medical type mirror be better?). But I can barely get my hand in the soundhole. Is there a method for this? I have tried to isolate the problem from outside but it looks like I have to look at the inside. It's a bugur. Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 8 2019 0:02:21
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1341
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Maybe a loose screw? Sorry, just kidding. Is the action very low? It sounded like it could be the strings hitting the higher frets.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2019 7:05:47
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Hi Ethan - no it doesn't seem so. Something is certainly loose but I can't find it because I can't juggle light source, mirror, my hand etc etc.
I'm wondering if it might even be a back strut as touching the back had some effect too. That would be easier at least to see.
I've a good mind just to take the top off but as it was the best piece of wood (ie old) I have had it seems an overreaction.

quote:

Maybe a loose screw?
You mean me?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2019 20:21:15
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

I also just had a positive reaction to an old Youtube performance of some Diego del Gastor falsetas on that guitar - and the guy turns out to be a great guitarist - so I want to fix it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2019 20:24:38
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

You could try getting one of those inspection camera probes. The ones that are flexible. They used to be expensive but now you can find them relatively cheap. There are ones that plug into your phone or laptop. Not to mention it would be handy for other uses.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2019 20:32:09
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 299
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to JasonM

Or use a phone video camera if you have one that isn't fashionably mahoosive.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2019 21:59:29
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to JasonM

quote:

fashionably mahoosive.
No, it will just go in there, good idea. Let's hope I don't have to do the upside down shaking dance we've all done with plectrums.

Jason - I don't know those. Thanks for the heads-up.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2019 23:32:09
 
RobF

Posts: 252
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

quote:

I have reached an impasse in trying to fix this problem.

I tend to look at building and repair as separate disciplines and I think there’s no shame in a maker referring an instrument to a local repair expert, either for advice or for the repair itself. Quite likely they will be able to quickly isolate the problem and either provide you with some tips on how to carry out the repair on your own, or depending on the complexity, you could consider having them do the work.

In a sense it’s what you are doing when you ask in the Foro, but you might need someone who is able to do a hands-on inspection to resolve this one. It’s not like admitting defeat, you will learn from the experience, plus you’ll fix your guitar, so it’s all good.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2019 1:08:08
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to RobF

Yeah, I do too but always put that down to my lack of concentration. I would like to sort the problem myself for that reason (ie complete something difficult) but my problem currently is understanding the mechanics of the set up etc. It might come to having it fixed but repairers are in it to make a living too and I don't want to lead them up the potential sale path... Mind you, guitar buying in my experience is a long dance of nearly-buying.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2019 11:43:58
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1341
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

quote:

I can't juggle light source, mirror, my hand etc etc.


If you throw one of these in the guitar, it lights up everything and it stays cool.
https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Inspection/Guitar_Internal_Inspection_Light.html

Then your hand is free to manipulate this
https://www.zoro.com/supco-inspection-mirror-225-x-325-rect-im5/i/G5451463/?msclkid=829e59826316167338d904825c67f88a&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA_US_L1%20Fans%20%26%20HVAC%20Equipment&utm_term=4586200438774277&utm_content=All%20Products&gclid=CKOMk8PQ4uICFU-LxQIdvt4KdA&gclsrc=ds

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 12 2019 0:56:47
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to constructordeguitarras

Ahh. And I've just allowed my StewMac 10% off offer to lapse Worth a try, thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 12 2019 9:59:06
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to constructordeguitarras

Thanks for that Ethan - I think I've located a combination that might work. Looks cheap though, we'll see.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Xtools-Telescopic-Inspection-Mirror-Extends/dp/B00HSJKJYS
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 12 2019 10:08:43
 
RobF

Posts: 252
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

The problem with most extension mirrors that incorporate an integrated light is the light projects at 90 degrees to the plane of the mirror. But when the mirror is in the guitar you’re often sighting down it sideways (with the mirror at an obtuse angle to the stem), and the light isn’t pointing in the direction you’re looking.

This one works, although the mirror is a little bit on small side:

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Inspection/Fieldpiece_LED_Extension_Mirror.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 12 2019 13:54:06
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 450
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Dear oh dear. Ok thanks Rob. I expect I'll find the problems later - but it was only £5.
I can see the way this is going. I made an awful guitar once (though I haven't made many anyway). It was really rough, 'approximate' and unpleasing to look at. But I persisted. The sound was tolerable. The bridge flew off mid-gig as I'd only glued it using the struts in a go-bar deck so I glued it back down again properly. Later I put in on the settee to do something TV wise then promptly sat back down on it. It ended up like this. I didn't even use the wood. It was cursed.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 12 2019 14:17:56
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1341
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

quote:

It was cursed.


You mentioned Diego del Gastor falsetas earlier, I think. I knew Diego in 1970-1971. He usually didn't have a very good guitar--he had very strong hands and could make any guitar sound great. Once some friends bought him a great guitar and no one thought to buy a case for it. After celebrating at a venta, Diego put the guitar on the back seat of a car for safe keeping. Then later he drunkenly landed on top of it. I think it was a Santos Hernandez.

Once he borrowed my guitar for a film that someone wanted to make of him. When he saw my face at his proposition, he said, "No te pasa nada la guitarra."

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 12 2019 23:17:18
 
David LaPlante

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Mar. 7 2016
 

RE: Do I have a loose strut? (in reply to El Burdo

Try rapping around the guitar face with your fingertip. A loose strut should make a slapping noise.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2019 16:28:41
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