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benros

 

Posts: 132
Joined: Aug. 27 2016
 

Bernal model question 

Im a little bit confused about all the Bernal models and i have to estimate a good price for mine. Its a Bernal 1a Blanca from the 80‘s in very good condition. What do you think is it worth? Do anybody know, what his 1a had cost these days? Was the 1a his top model and was it built all by himself? Any information would be helpful.
Thanks!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 12:03:38
 
flyeogh

Posts: 433
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros

Benros I have a Bernal 1999. The seller, gitano sevillano, told me his father knew Valeriano Bernal and that it was the highest quality model below individual handmade - Model F. I have no reason to doubt him including photos of it being played in the bars of Sevilla.

Despite having an Ander's made for me in 2005 I still love my Bernal guitar. Compared to an Alhambra 10f it is a total pleasure to play (not suggesting that is a great recommendation but it is the only comparison I have).

Don't get me wrong my Ander's leaves me over my dead body - but that is in a different league.

If you search here you'll find very interesting posts by a distributor of guitars Valeriano Bernal and other people who experienced these animals.

The posts in 2009 I think could be helpful.

But please post your offer in the classifieds here as I might well be interested for my niece in Madrid.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 14:36:10
 
benros

 

Posts: 132
Joined: Aug. 27 2016
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to flyeogh

hey nigel, thanks for replying. what did you pay for your f-model?
i have read the posts about bernal guitars here, but there is not much information about the 1a-model. some information would be great.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 17:08:02
 
flyeogh

Posts: 433
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros

quote:

what did you pay for your f-model?


Benros I don't think that would help you much as it was 2004 I think. I paid over the top but the deal included some lessons and the price at the time was in US dollars
which were at a poor rate to the Euro and the pound at the time. And the market was more buoyant than today. I think the amount related to 1400 Euros.


Problem as I see it is that the marketplace is not short of Bernals . An old one here in Spain:

GUITARRA FLAMENCA DEL AñO 1976 Vendo guitarra flamenca del año 1976. Hecha por Valeriano Bernal (padre). Está en muy buen estado, solo tiene pequeña grieta perfectamente reparada por el guitarrero. Tiene clavijero de madera. Es una joya con 42 años de antigüedad. El precio es de 1. 700 €. No negociables. Solo atiendo por teléfono.

And another: Guitarra flamenca valeriano bernal 1997 Tapa pino abeto aleman macizo fondo y aros cipres macizo muy comoda para las dos manos pesa muy poco envio a toda españa se puede ver y probar 650€ rebajada no negociable

And : Vendo o cambio por guitarra flamenca similar Conde, Reyes, Andalusian guitar, etc. o alguna inferior + dinero, esta guitarra flamenca de Valeriano Bernal, modelo Duende, del año 2002. Es la tope de gama en las guitarras de ciprés del constructor. Aros y fondo: Ciprés real español macizo de primera, y tapa maciza de abeto alemán. Cabeza tallada con clavijero de palillos. 3750 Euros.

But there are high end almost new Bernals for 1200 to 1900 Euros and many secondhand down to 400. Sadly I can find no mention of 1A

It seems the marketplace is wide open and you need time on your side.

ps: Of course Spain is always a bit cheaper than overseas and I live in Bernal land

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 19:29:49
 
Fred Klinge

 

Posts: 89
Joined: Aug. 1 2013
From: Abita Springs, Louisiana

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros

what did you pay for your f-model?

I happened to be watching an online auction over the weekend for a 2001 Bernal Clase F in very good condition. Final selling price was $719 plus $50 shipping.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 20:30:50
 
flyeogh

Posts: 433
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Fred Klinge

Seems about right to me Fred. Depends on dings of course which after almost 20 years I'd be amazed if it didn't have a few.

There just seem so many in the marketplace, although I guess that says something good about their construction and popularity

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 21:17:42
 
benros

 

Posts: 132
Joined: Aug. 27 2016
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to flyeogh

it seems to me, that the used bernal guitars seem to gravitate to the same price tag (in germany around 900-1200 euro), equal what model (besides the newer top models). there also is not much visible difference between the f-model and the 1a, in terms of wood choice or ornamentation. probably the 1a is the same model just built by valeriano himself. it would really interest me, how much the 1a was back then, since bernals prices where so low. anyway, probabaly better to hold mine.
bernal guitars are all over the place, because the have such a great output (i think i read somewhere, the produce 150-200
guitars per year).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 22:18:22
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros

Hi Benros
I have a long connection with Bernal guitars. I used to be their main distributor from around 2001-2003.
You can read about my involvement from this thread.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=107001&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=bernal

To answer your question i need to know more about the guitar. The letter F signifies flamenco and there were many models ranging from (todays equilavent) of around 500 to 4000 euros. Post a photo of the label inside the guitar and a general Front /back photo
P

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2019 17:02:19
 
flyeogh

Posts: 433
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Pimientito

Pimientito I have read your posts from way back then and found them very interesting.

Here is the label from my Bernal 1999. Is the signed bottom half of the label relevant or do they all have that?

Would welcome any comment and hopefully Benros will put his up soon.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2019 15:00:11
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to flyeogh

Hi.
Well I can tell you that only the higher models had the signed numbered labels. Yours is number 05 from 1999. There is no wax seal on the label so its not got that "double arco" body which was the most expensive model. At that time Valeriano made the higher models personally and he was teaching his son to build them too. I can see that that the fingerboard is ebony. Bernal used rosewood as fingerboards on the lower models and ebony on the higher ones up until about 2003, then he put ebony finger boards on all the models. Another giveaway is that it doesnt have a 3 part back which were used on the intermediate models at that time so we can say fairly confidently that this guitar is a primera (probably what is now the meastro) that was either built by Valeriano himself or with the help of his son ( who now makes the all the higher models)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2019 17:28:58
 
flyeogh

Posts: 433
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Pimientito

Pimientito thank you so much for that. It all fits in exactly with the story from the previous owner, who spent his time playing in the bars and restaurants of Sevilla.

It certainly has had a hard life as the damage I'd had repaired clearly shows. But that was all cosmetic.

Anyway I like it and find it easy to play. And a story on its 20th birthday makes it even more appealing.

I'll add your comments to its history file so long after I'm gone those who get to own it will know of its past. Cheers

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2019 18:31:25
 
benros

 

Posts: 132
Joined: Aug. 27 2016
 

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Pimientito

Hey Mark,
ive already read your interesting story! Thanks for jumping in. Would be nice if you could give me some information. its not a clase f, but a 1a.
Here are the pics:







Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2019 22:13:01
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros

I cant tell you as much about this guitar as its from 1988 and I was not involved with the company at that time. Its definately Vals signature on the label. The numbers are about right. This is number 19 dated 30th July which is a day or 2 before the factory shut for summer. In August it got too hot in Algodonales for glue and laquer to work properly so they shut up shop and maybe only made bridges. Thats why the bridges on the higher and lower models are more or less identical. Val personally made about 35 guitars per year, his wife (one of the few guitar makers in Spain) made a large number of the "Serrania" series which were the lowest models. The whole family made the other guitar models as a collaborative effort. The output increased as the family got bigger! Again this is one of Vals guitars and it looks to be in excellent condition for its age. Because Bernals instruments were well priced, they were often well played and got fairly beaten up. You have obviously taken good care of her.

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Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/

"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
CDbaby. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/markshurey
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2019 19:00:45
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