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Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
Tomatito taking classical guitar lessons
Pretty fun to watch...this is pretty much the way Paco learned the concierto as well with JM Gallardo del Rey years ago. And overall a very cool documentary. His Reyes is over due for a touch up it seems... at 7:30
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
Very interesting. Tomatito looks like a genuine man. If I can say it, I didn’t like all those scenes here and there of Felipe Conde making a guitar as this may suggest a kind of link with Tomatito. . In fact Tomatito played a Reyes all the movie long and doesn’t usually play FC guitars
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Echi)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Echi
Very interesting. Tomatito looks like a genuine man. If I can say it, I didn’t like all those scenes here and there of Felipe Conde making a guitar as this may suggest a kind of link with Tomatito. . In fact Tomatito played a Reyes all the movie long and doesn’t usually play FC guitars
Worse than that....the conde secret might get out of how to build properly...I hope no luthiers other than estebanana noticed things like how to cut a soundhole or put in a rosette sticker!
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Worse than that....the conde secret might get out of how to build properly...I hope no luthiers other than estebanana noticed things like how to cut a soundhole or put in a rosette sticker!
You mean the Spanish way of cutting the soundhole with blade in a compass instead of the American way with a router?
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
It’s just that all the movie long Tomatito played his Reyes and somehow this is a deserved tribute for the art of a guitar maker. Imagine that Tomatito played a different maker guitar: I guess he would be proud to see Tomatito playing the guitar in the movie. Well, at the end you see instead the smiling face of Felipe Conde and his son who have really nothing to do with the guitar played by Tomatito. This is obviously a marketing practice and a misleading message for those unable to distinguish a Reyes guitar.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Echi)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Echi
It’s just that all the movie long Tomatito played his Reyes and somehow this is a deserved tribute for the art of a guitar maker. Imagine that Tomatito played a different maker guitar: I guess he would be proud to see Tomatito playing the guitar in the movie. Well, at the end you see instead the smiling face of Felipe Conde and his son who have really nothing to do with the guitar played by Tomatito. This is obviously a marketing practice and a misleading message for those unable to distinguish a Reyes guitar.
Well, in all honesty, Tomatito was using a Felipe Conde circa 1995, beautifully captured in the Flamenco movie of Saura and the Encuentro instructional, and that instrument has a FAR superior voice to the miriad of Reyes guitars he has been using since, all of which fall short of other finely voiced Reyes instruments used by other players.....IMO. Also there is a scene where Tomatito and son are at the NAMM booth of Felipe Conde, trying out some guitars. So the Felipe Conde inclusion is totally appropriate IMO, regardless which instruments Tomate has been using, and further, there is zero implication that a luthier at work has anything to do with the career of the featured artist, any more than his little stroll through the Almeria guitar museum has some connection to the artist.
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Well, in all honesty, Tomatito was using a Felipe Conde circa 1995, beautifully captured in the Flamenco movie of Saura and the Encuentro instructional, and that instrument has a FAR superior voice to the miriad of Reyes guitars he has been using since, all of which fall short of other finely voiced Reyes instruments used by other players.....IMO. So the Felipe Conde inclusion is totally appropriate IMO, regardless which instruments Tomate has been using, and further, there is zero implication that a luthier at work has anything to do with the career of the featured artist, any more than his little stroll through the Almeria guitar museum has some connection to the artist.
Ricardo, in my opinion there is a clear connection between Tomatito and Almeria as he was born down there and always had connections with flamenco figures and makers of that area, like Gerundino, Eladio and Miguel Gonzales.
Tomatito played and owned many guitars (and in fact he defines himself as a collector): among his many guitars I would point out first Bellido and Gerundino, but I wouldn’t have problems to add to the list also Conde Hermanos Felipe V. Nonetheless honestly I keep not seeing the link with the guitars branded Felipe Conde. I suppose everybody knows that Tomatito’s main guitars on stage have been old Faustino Conde and more recently a Reyes.
Look, I’ m not making any judgement here about the guitars made by Felipe Conde. Btw I started a thread with the title: “is Manuel Reyes overrated?”. Nonetheless I don’t like this kind of aggressive marketing Felipe Conde is known for.
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
Mariano Conde is much friendlier than his dark brother Felipe. This is not a judgement but something I have seen by myself speaking with both over the time. He also builds with his son not far from the Teatro Real of Madrid. Here's what a MC sounds like:
There's also this documentary in which his son says (1:16) that there are four people currently building the MC guitars, two officials that have been working with his father for the last 30 years, his father and him. Seven guitars a month, 70 to 80 guitars a year.
BTW this Tomatito documentary just goes to confirm what I said in an earlier post: Tomatito is losing himself (and his flamencura) in other styles that don't suit him.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to sartorius)
quote:
ORIGINAL: sartorius
Mariano Conde is much friendlier than his dark brother Felipe. This is not a judgement but something I have seen by myself speaking with both over the time. He also builds with his son not far from the Teatro Real of Madrid. Here's what a MC sounds like:
There's also this documentary in which his son says (1:16) that there are four people currently building the MC guitars, two officials that have been working with his father for the last 30 years, his father and him. Seven guitars a month, 70 to 80 guitars a year
BTW this Tomatito documentary just goes to confirm what I said in an earlier post: Tomatito is losing himself (and his flamencura) in other styles that don't suit him.
Friendly has nada to do with guitar building, maybe selling guitars. Anyway, I met both guys and tried both guitars a day apart.... no comparison. I don't care about defending mr felipe or his guitars, but as to this topic the negativity doesn't make sense. There is no marketing in first vid, yes Tomatito used felipe Conde guitars, no Mariano is not superior builder or person and no tomate has not lost flamencura by learning piazzola and aranjuez (eye roll)
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
Come on Ricardo, we all know guitar builders are a friendly and enthusiastic bunch of men and Felipe just doesn't fit in. That doesn't mean we throw negativity at him, as mentioned earlier it's just something that can be noticed with him.
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
Didn't mean to be negative or say anything bad regarding the guitars of Felipe Conde. If Ricardo says they are good guitars, I cannot but believe him even though this wasn't my point. My only point was/is that Tomatito has being using almost exclusively a Reyes guitar for many years now and you can see him playing exclusively a Reyes in the video above..That's it.
Posts: 4516
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to sartorius)
quote:
ORIGINAL: sartorius
Come on Ricardo, we all know guitar builders are a friendly and enthusiastic bunch of men and Felipe just doesn't fit in.
I met Felipe too. He actually is friendly ....and....funny! He just has some kind of "I wont lick your ass just so you buy my guitars" attitude, which is fine, since he doesn't need that anymore
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Arash)
quote:
I met Felipe too. He actually is friendly ....and....funny! He just has some kind of "I wont lick your ass just so you buy my guitars" attitude, which is fine, since he doesn't need that anymore
I'm vehemently anti ass licking to sell guitars, but if anyone one ever needed to kiss ass it's me. Kissing ass or not is inconsequential to guitar making. He's not special just because he does not kiss ass, he just happened to have inherited the widest customer base in the flamenco guitar business. Seriously, why be nice when you start at the top?
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to orsonw)
quote:
ORIGINAL: orsonw
quote:
True. The few frames with the orchestra are played with a different negra: Bellido?
Barba.
Good find! I spent some time looking for that rosette, even looked at many Francisco Barba models, as I suspected it from the head and tie block, but never found a match.
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RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Good find! I spent some time looking for that rosette, even looked at many Francisco Barba models, as I suspected it from the head and tie block, but never found a match.
Also, Barba often have that type of purfling around the top.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
It strikes me that Tomatito's very humble, to learn a classical guitar piece guitar-to-guitar like a newbie learning falsetas. It also seems a great way to learn, if you can afford to pay a teacher everyday.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
It strikes me that Tomatito's very humble, to learn a classical guitar piece guitar-to-guitar like a newbie learning falsetas. It also seems a great way to learn, if you can afford to pay a teacher everyday.
Learning the Aranjuez in College was quite a different experience for me
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
Interesting documentary thanks for posting that Ricardo. Don't know about playing the aranjuez though... Tomatito is one of my favorite player when it comes to "festive palos" (Tangos, Bulerias, Alegrias), love his swing and his ideas but when it comes to "libre" palos (I know the adagio is not really libre as demonstrated by Paco but you get what I mean) ... I don't know, I dont really dig it : it's not really going anywhere, seems like a bunch of unfinished ideas and his "forceful sound" does not really work in this context. I prefer the more "intellectual school" for libre palos (amigo, riqueni, manolo sanlucar, even nunez). Maybe he will do great in the 1st & 3rd movement will be interesting to hear his interpretation. Technique has to be very much on point between attempting this one too :)
For me, the most interesting and musical interpretation is still the one by Paco De Lucia.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
It strikes me that Tomatito's very humble, to learn a classical guitar piece guitar-to-guitar like a newbie learning falsetas. It also seems a great way to learn, if you can afford to pay a teacher everyday.
Learning the Aranjuez in College was quite a different experience for me
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Tomatito taking classical guitar... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
It strikes me that Tomatito's very humble, to learn a classical guitar piece guitar-to-guitar like a newbie learning falsetas. It also seems a great way to learn, if you can afford to pay a teacher everyday.
Learning the Aranjuez in College was quite a different experience for me
TAB? just joking :)
Do you like it? The Concierto, I mean?
No....except that paco played so it's sort of "ok" like the Falla and Garcia Lorca and Albeniz junk. PDL makes it slightly interesting....slightly. Too bad Paco didn't play any Bach.