Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvir, Philip John Lee and Craig Eros who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





RE: left hand technique question   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 [2]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

This is a deeper question than it appears IMO. You said if it was technically better, but sometimes it is a musical thing. For example, in classical music, there is a concept that the endings of notes are just as important as the beginning. Much of the art of CG is muting basses that are ringing and shouldn't be. Also, often you can easily recognize the underlying chord pattern ("grip") but you _shouldn't_ play it as a grip, but put the fingers down as they are needed. This helps keep the voices distinct, conserves energy, and helps legato.

In technical terms, I have never really felt leaving fingers down helped me. For example, if I were playing a chromatic lick 1234, I don't really like to hold down and keep down each note, I tend to lift the notes as the next note is played.


I remember Paco de Lucia saying something to the extent of: "We don´t press down the strings anymore, but just tap them lightly for just as long as the note needs to be".

Before that I used to think that staying on the fretboard and swapping individual fingers would be best. Since the time that I gave up on it, having fingers floating over the board as poise, more over engaging wrist and base of hand to comfort fingers reaching target, my left hand seems more relaxed and undeterred so to say.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2017 2:40:58
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3347
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

This is a deeper question than it appears IMO. You said if it was technically better, but sometimes it is a musical thing.


For me learning something like Barrio La Viña is not just to have something I like to play (and the chances of me ever getting it to sound like the original are slim, although that is not a reason to stop working on it).

By pulling it apart in the learning process I learn about how the composition is put together, and how the technique works.

So it's not just about making the sounds any way I can, but about how the composer and original performer (the same in flamenco, unlike classical) made the sounds, in order to also learn about their technique, playing and composing.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2017 11:52:13
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filip

quote:

all the other notes are covered by my pinky while the index and 3th finger remain posted.

-----------------3--5p--6p-
-----3--5p--6p-------------
--5--------------------------
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
----------------------------

Your picado with pinky only is crazy :) I would do it with the 2nd finger on the 3rd string, and would use both 3rd and 4th finger for the picado.

Yeah, it kind of is isn't it :-). One of the reasons i play it like that (aside that it somehow feels "natural" to me) is that previously i play this chord:

-----------
---8------- pinky
---7------- 3th finger
---5------- barre
--(5)------
---7------- 2th finger

which already has the same line up of fingers in the 5-th position. So rather then moving that 2-th finger from 6-th string to 3-th string (during the split second i slide back from 5-th to 3-th position) i favor to use the same finger setup in both chords which allows me to slide back the barre finger and the 3-th finger while keeping contact with the string. This gives me the first notes "for free" and in return i settle for the fact the pinky is the only remaining finger to cover the 5-th and 6-th fret. The 3-th finger stays fretted to "ease" that action and is only lifted after my pinky reached it's final note. Then, while the pinky and the barre index stay posted, the 3-th finger is finally lifted to play the next chord...

--6--- pinky
--5--- 3th
--3--- barre
--5--- 2th
--3--- barre
------

So although pretty crazy when looking at the isolated phrase, it does have a certain logic considering what precedes and follows it, on top it's the way i tend do deal with things anyway :-).


Like usual a "self composed" phrase popped up in my record collection (always had that feeling about certain parts of that fandangos falseta, one part i knew for sure to quote PDL, from above part so far i suspected it) anyway i just found out for sure above phrase comes from La Barrosa. Obviously i wondered how PDL dealt with that situation but as it turns out he plays that phrase in 1-th position so doesn't need a barre index to cover part of the notes :-).

_____________________________

The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2017 13:44:57
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

I remember Paco de Lucia saying something to the extent of: "We don´t press down the strings anymore, but just tap them lightly for just as long as the note needs to be".

Before that I used to think that staying on the fretboard and swapping individual fingers would be best. Since the time that I gave up on it, having fingers floating over the board as poise, more over engaging wrist and base of hand to comfort fingers reaching target, my left hand seems more relaxed and undeterred so to say.


Proper positioning/lineup/relaxation of arm/wrist/hand and fingers is indeed the key to everything, both left and right. That was also Grisha's secret ingredient for playing picado effortless. Proper relaxation has to be the start of every action. Very small differences in how you position your hand/curl your fingers, dose your input etc. can have a huge impact on the outcom.

_____________________________

The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2017 13:58:05
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

Keeping the left hand on the fretboard for as much as possible while directing single fingers around, to me seems not the most inviting way to enable relaxation.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2017 15:35:41
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Keeping the left hand on the fretboard for as much as possible while directing single fingers around, to me seems not the most inviting way to enable relaxation.


As long as needed/wanted and indeed quite often possible in the sense of being helpful/required for sound and/or smart left hand management rather then ""as much as possible" in the sense of being dogmatic. When i keep fingers posted it is for a reason and obstructing relaxation is not one of those reasons :-).

_____________________________

The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2017 17:07:16
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13341
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Keeping the left hand on the fretboard for as much as possible while directing single fingers around, to me seems not the most inviting way to enable relaxation.


Every heard of "barre chords" Ruphus????

If somebody can't find relaxation playing chords, I think guitar is probably not for them.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 1 2017 17:14:30
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

Barre chords, barre chords ... hmmm, lemme think, what was that again ... hehe

What I meant regarding chords, was changing them while leaving whatever finger on the board that reserves a retained note, separately moving the others. And with solo basically the same in so far that any finger which does not need switching position shall stay in place.
To my understanding more spider than needed.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 1 2017 18:50:36
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

What I meant regarding chords, was changing them while leaving whatever finger on the board that reserves a retained note, separately moving the others. And with solo basically the same in so far that any finger which does not need switching position shall stay in place.


A perfect example of keeping selected fingers posted (in above chord example literally as long as possible) while other fingers do whatever they have to do :-).

_____________________________

The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 1 2017 19:53:21
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

That is what´s been meant, but no what appears most useful to me, as principle.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 3 2017 6:40:09
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ricardo

Maybe this is why I hate jamming on rumbas so much with other guitarists. Playing a few sets where I am strumming half or more is a pretty crappy experience for me. My barreing for solo guitar doesn't bother me, although I do have room for improvement on the technique.

_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ


Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2017 18:03:04
 
callemunicion

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Jun. 5 2017
 

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

Hello, I know this is an old topic but I've another nerdy technique question.
What do you thing about this thing:
(Bulería)
E
B-------------------0
G------0-----------1
D2h3----3--------2
A ------------------------- repeat
E--------------0

Is it better to keep the 2nd finger down?

Or this: (por solea)
E--1-------1-------1---1
B-----1-------1--1-----1
G2-------4-------------4p2-0
D--------------------------------3--2
A
E

Is it better to keep the 2nd and the 4th finger on the fretboard?
I know this is a bit a silly, but I don't really know what to do because the two ways are possible for me. In the first example I would prefer to keep the 2nd finger on the fretboard and in the second one I would move just because it feels better, don't know why..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2017 11:23:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13341
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to callemunicion

quote:

ORIGINAL: callemunicion

Hello, I know this is an old topic but I've another nerdy technique question.
What do you thing about this thing:
(Bulería)
E
B-------------------0
G------0-----------1
D2h3----3--------2
A ------------------------- repeat
E--------------0

Is it better to keep the 2nd finger down?

Or this: (por solea)
E--1-------1-------1---1
B-----1-------1--1-----1
G2-------4-------------4p2-0
D--------------------------------3--2
A
E

Is it better to keep the 2nd and the 4th finger on the fretboard?
I know this is a bit a silly, but I don't really know what to do because the two ways are possible for me. In the first example I would prefer to keep the 2nd finger on the fretboard and in the second one I would move just because it feels better, don't know why..


Since you can do it both ways and it doesn’t affect the sound, it is totally arbitrary.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2017 12:38:22
 
callemunicion

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Jun. 5 2017
 

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to Ruphus

Thanks for your reply. What would you do in that case?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2017 13:48:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13341
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: left hand technique question (in reply to callemunicion

I lift in both cases, to prevent accidental muting of the adjacent string by the one holding. For example in the first example, if I play the G string very aggressively I can feel it just slightly bouncing off my fat middle finger.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 22 2017 16:52:08
Page:   <<   <   1 [2]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 [2]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.046875 secs.