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Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] 

So I've always just used D'Adarios for all my guitars for all purposes. I suppose mostly out of laziness and they got the job done "good enough". I never left flamenco but have recently bumped my participation level back up and want to find some new strings to fit the new motivation.
I don't really have any issue with the D'Adario basses, I feel like they're warm but crunchy when you need it and project pretty decent.
My issue is with the trebles, I've always known they are a little on the dead side so I'd love something with a little more bite and sparkle. I'm playing with student dancers again and need something to cut and project. I guess I'm looking for good strings for dance...
Hard tension is kind of a must, I tried regular once and took them off, tried extra hard and it was a bit much but I could adjust.
Any suggestions are much appreciated!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 0:10:28
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

If you can accept composite trebles, you could give Hannbach Goldin trebles a try. They are expensive, but last some 10 sets of basses.

Savarez Alianza is a very strong sounding composite treble string, but the high E string is really thin and hard (also on your nails and finger joints)

The good old LaBella 820 can be very percussive on some guitars and very dull on others.

Old school dance class setup often means very low setup, so that you get as much rattle and buzz as possible without sacrifizing volume. Dancers dont really listen much to your polished homework anyways. They just want guitar percussion

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 6:54:46
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2750
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Have you also tried carbon trebles? D'Addario make carbon trebles, and also they have "Titanium" trebles.

The Savarez "Tomatito" set is identical to their "Cantiga Creation" set. Sometimes one set is cheaper than the other, but the strings are the same. They have "New Cristal" nylon for the 1st/E and 2nd/B, and Alliance composite/carbon 3rd/G.

I have tried a similar combination with D'Addario mixing Titanium 1st/E and 2nd/B, and Carbon 3rd/G.

Then there are Luthiers.

So there are a few options for you to try!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 10:24:45
 
Njål Bendixen

 

Posts: 65
Joined: Aug. 25 2016
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

You could try nylgut trebles. Nylgut is a synthetic material with the same specific gravity as gut. Nylgut strings are an attempt at recreating the sound of gut strings. Gut strings are of course much brighter than nylon, so they may be just what you are looking for. Nylgut strings do not feel would like gut to play on, nylgut strings feel more like nylon to play on.

Nylgut strings are available both individual strings and as guitar sets. If you only need the trebles you may be better off buying individual strings. I recommend the following gauges to begin with if you are using Daddario basses:

68
82
98

You can always adjust the tension, for example if you prefer a brighter sounding 1st string you could try gauge 66.

If you prefer to purchase the full sets you should try the Alabastro sets first.

Nylgut works fantastically well with some guitars, but not with others. I think that all guitarists should try them, at least once.

https://www.aquilacorde.com/category/modern-instrument-sets/?lang=en



I just noticed that Aquila has introduced a new flamenco set, Granato, and a classical set, Rubino. These sets have trebles with metal powders mixed into the nylon to increase the specific gravity. I have long been thinking that this would be the solution to all string problems. Have any of you tried these strings?


Njål
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 11:31:28
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Thank you Andres Mark and Njal!
I don't know how I completely forgot about composites and carbons! I think I'm gunna order the hannabachs, Alianzas, D'adario carbons and Savarez, can't seem to find nylagut on stringsbymail. I always felt like trying new strings would be a chore but I'm looking forward to this. Gunna record each one and compare, long term project lol

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 12:51:57
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7545
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Here is the link to the strings by mail site. If you search on carbon trebles, like I did, all the treble sets some up that have teeth.

You can order three or four sets that look interesting- The Hannabachs have bite, you might try a carbon set-

https://www.stringsbymail.com/search/results.html?inc_subcat=1&search_in_description=1&categories_id=&keyword=carbon+treble&x=0&y=0

I have used the new Aquila strings on my guitars probably not what you are looking for. Nylgut also not what you want.

Here is a sampler pack of trebles with punch: https://www.stringsbymail.com/treble-material-collection-from-strings-by-mail-6056.html

That sample pack plus a set of Hannabach trebles and you can figure out a lot.

Description

This collection offers experimentation in different treble material. There are quite a few options to explore. The included documentation will guide you through the different compositions. This collection contains treble sets only.
D'Addario Titanium T45 Treble Set
Galli Carbonio (Carbon) GC90 Treble Set
Luthier Black Nylon Treble Set
Augustine Regal Clear Nylon Treble Set
Savarez Rectified Nylon 520R Treble Set

All collections include short descriptions on each product as seen in the picture.

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The Augustines are similar to D'Addario- but the other four might be good, maybe ask them if they can make a sample pack substituting a Hannabach set for Augustine- When I sent you the guitar it had either D'Addario or Augustine medium tension, that is what i was using last year. I also sent out Aquila Rubino on classicals.

I also happen to like the Alliance sets a lot, but some players think they color the sound of the guitar too much for trial purposes. At one time I kept a pre stretched Savarez set in the shop so I could change to that set for showing the guitar with D'Addario vs. Alliance - Savarez sets make guitar sound very sensual or seductive in the sound quality and I have encountered people who want to hear the guitar with less colorful sounding strings. If you are playing for dancers and classes, Savarez basses are a waste of money, they wear faster. But they sound great.

Just my opinion, but hard bright sounding E and B can help you do a lot of work, but I dislike the idea f making the G string the 'smooth link' between the B and the D. I think the funky goofy sounding G string that does not marry the trebles and basses together is much better sounding. The G is the strangest string on the guitar and it is the most oud sounding and mood bendable string. It has a lot of magic and covering it up with the Composite material that aims to sand the edges off that funk is non flamenco idea. I like fat thuddy soft G strings that you can sink into and contrast of a nasty sound D string. But that's just my opinion. I ditched that composite material in 2000...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 13:02:50
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Done! Got the sampler pack and some Hannabachs!
I know the dancers don't care, it's mostly about me, I wanna hear my falsetas and things more clearly over their stomping.
You sent it to me with D'Adarios which was great cus I had those on all my guitars so I could hear the actual difference in the guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 16:54:44
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11449
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

As per usual I recommend either La Bella 820 or 820B, or luthier 20's or 30's for what you are after.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 17:09:36
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Done! haha just ordered some trebles of 820B and 30's. This is going to take a while.
GahDang the hannabachs are pricey, I hope I don't like em.....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2017 17:45:31
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

I love LaBella 820's. The bases seem to go dull fairly fast, but they sound so good and percussive while they're alive. They live fast and die young
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2017 2:04:02
 
JasonM

Posts: 1123
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

I'm on the same quest myself. Been using D'Adarrios and I just tried Luthier 30's, and right now I have Labella 820's... actually the clear version, which is like 720 or something.


Both sets were much brighter than the d'adarrios. I really liked the Luthiers, especially for dance class because of the higher tension. Rasqueado sounds Muy flamenco, but they are a little to stiff.

My biggest issue is finding a tension that is in between the two brands Medium and Medium High.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2017 13:32:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11449
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

I'm on the same quest myself. Been using D'Adarrios and I just tried Luthier 30's, and right now I have Labella 820's... actually the clear version, which is like 720 or something.


Both sets were much brighter than the d'adarrios. I really liked the Luthiers, especially for dance class because of the higher tension. Rasqueado sounds Muy flamenco, but they are a little to stiff.

My biggest issue is finding a tension that is in between the two brands Medium and Medium High.


Luthier 20's

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2017 13:48:03
 
JasonM

Posts: 1123
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Ricardo

I'll try the 20's, thanks! I wasn't going to because they didn't list the tension.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2017 15:45:27
 
nikgogl

 

Posts: 38
Joined: Jul. 4 2011
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

JasonM - you mentioned a clear version of the LaBella, can you send a link to it or something? Can't seem to find it anywhere... thanks!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2017 23:48:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11449
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to nikgogl

quote:

ORIGINAL: nikgogl

JasonM - you mentioned a clear version of the LaBella, can you send a link to it or something? Can't seem to find it anywhere... thanks!


https://www.stringsbymail.com/la-bella-427-pacesetter-elite-mt-classical-guitar-strings-full-set-644.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 22 2017 16:51:46
 
FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 852
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Njål Bendixen

quote:

I just noticed that Aquila has introduced a new flamenco set, Granato, and a classical set, Rubino. These sets have trebles with metal powders mixed into the nylon to increase the specific gravity. I have long been thinking that this would be the solution to all string problems. Have any of you tried these strings?

I have tried the Granato, the trebles sound amazing but the material gets scratched quite fast and you end up getting an annoying "scratchy" sound out of them. For this reason you can't stand the trebles on for long and they last much less than they should. They are also really light and it feels weird to play them compared to the their higher mass nylon counterparts, it takes a while for you to adjust.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 22 2017 17:37:59
 
Cervantes

 

Posts: 435
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

I have tried many many strings. Its funny because I always avoided D'Addario per your dull sounding assessment. Recently I had tried some expensive Knobloch strings and wasn't that happy with them. I had some EJ46s lying around and put the basses on and really like them better than anything else, I had also noticed this with my teacher as he uses these strings. For what you describe carbon strings would probably work well, while they are louder and more punchy I find them to have a cold sound lacking a certain character. Since I only play by myself at home with my wife sometimes in the vicinity I prefer treble strings that are more sweet and lyrical sounding. My current favorites are Hannabach 815LT. These are low tension strings but Hannabach is higher tension than most other brands so low is more like medium. I may try these in MT to see if I like it better. There is still plenty of volume with these strings IMO

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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2017 17:58:21
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2711
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Cervantes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cervantes
I have tried many many strings. Its funny because I always avoided D'Addario per your dull sounding assessment.


This time last year I bought a new classical guitar from its maker. He insisted I keep D'Addario EJ-46 (high tension) strings on it. I have, and have replaced them only once or twice during the past year. The guitar has developed nicely. It was loud, resonant and brilliant to begin with. Now it is more even in response up and down the fretboard, and I would say the tone is more "integrated." At first I thought the D'Addarios might have a slight tendency to dullness, but I don't think so any longer.

I have an Abel Garcia spruce/Brazilian classical that I had Savarez Cantiga basses and New Crystal trebles (normal tension) on for a few years. I arrived at this by trying a bunch of different strings on a '73 Romanillos, and deciding I like the Savarez the best. So I put them on my other two classicals at the time.

The Savarez basses on the Garcia got old (as they do fairly quickly) so I decided to put a full set D'Addario EJ-45s on it, since I was liking the EJ-46s on the new classical. "Oops, too dull," I thought. But i had other classicals to play, so I decided to see how the D'Addarios would develop on the Garcia. Coming finally to the point, after a month of mostly sitting in the case, and another month of getting played about ten hours a week, I like the D'Addarios better than I did the Savarez. After stretching and being played, the D'Addarios stopped being dull.

This is not to say D'Addarios are the best strings. The best strings depend on your guitar, how you play, the shape and length of your fingernails, what you want the sound to be....and a few dozen other factors.

If you're not satisfied with the strings you have on, try some others. Use the ones you like best.

But I can see why a luthier would want to have a "standard string." How else could he measure his progress?

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2017 23:15:52
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Merry Christmas to Kasey what to start with.......



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2017 23:49:42
 
Oliver

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 28 2014
From: Germany

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

You might also wanna try the D'Addario EJ46TT (it's HT with titanium trebles).

They have a kind of dry, but somehow crystalline sound, cut through very well and have a very quick response. When i tried them (on a HSL 2F blanca), i had the impression of slightly increased projection. The durability was also good.

I didn't really like the "titanium" sound, though. It differs from nylon and carbon, hard to describe... maybe a bit too "glassy", but my impression of glassy could match yours of sparkly. Always hard to describe sound
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2017 10:30:36
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2750
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Oliver

quote:

D'Addario EJ46TT (it's HT with titanium trebles).


do you mean the Dynacore basses? They are the ones D'Addario pair with either their Titanium or Carbon trebles.

I bought a guitar with Dynacore/Titanium strings on it and used them for a year or so. Then I bought another guitar with Savarez Tomatito strings on it. This got me in a restless mood and I have been the whole round of D'Addario, Savarez, Luthier, Royal Classics, La Bella in different tensions etc. on both guitars. I am just at the point of going back to D'Addario.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2017 14:33:23
 
Oliver

Posts: 11
Joined: Oct. 28 2014
From: Germany

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to mark indigo

quote:


do you mean the Dynacore basses?


Yes, it's the set with the Dynacore basses, although i referred to the trebles only in my previous post. I liked the basses. Right now i prefer La Bella.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2017 16:35:12
 
JasonM

Posts: 1123
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

You should try the Goldins first, I wanna know what you think before I drop that kinda of money on strings I may hate ;)

I've got a set of Luthier 20's that came in the mail today, based on Ricardo's suggestion.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2017 19:35:59
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Sorry, I went La Bella's. :/ strung it up and left, try it out when I get back home.
Saving the hananachs for when I've played a few other sets to really get a good idea where they rank.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2017 22:20:34
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

You didn't like the FF normal tension trebles? By the description of what you want, those should've been perfect.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2017 13:09:41
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Which FF tables? I've always only played the ej46's....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2017 15:26:56
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

Ok, my bad.

I thought you had received a set of those from D'Addario, maybe it was Fred.

EJ45FF are exactly like you describe, great set with great basses too.

I wouldn't put 46FF trebles on a guitar, that would be way too much tension. The 45's are already very tight, from what I remember they feel tighter than regular nylon 46's but they aren't as fat in diameter.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2017 15:46:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11449
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

I just remembered you are using a Stephan Faulk guitar. I experimented myself with the port orford back and sides guitar and ended up liking the La Bella 820's. I don't know what were on it at first, but I remember thinking the trebles were not so sparkly. Here was the guitar fresh out of the shipping box with strings detuned, so perhaps the trebs were not settled yet:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=260865&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=

And later with the La Bella 820's I found it quite balanced and sparkly:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=272219&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=aspan&tmode=&smode=&s=#272219

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2017 17:01:44
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

quote:

I thought you had received a set of those from D'Addario, maybe it was Fred.

Ahhhh you know what I did when I placed in that competition we had! I got the 46'S though and the high E and B snapped when I was trying to string it up so I threw them all out and put my regular 46's on.
quote:

I just remembered you are using a Stephan Faulk guitar. I experimented myself with the port orford back and sides guitar and ended up liking the La Bella 820's.

Sounds great in your video! I just put the La Bella's on yesterday so they're far from settled but so far the unsettled La Bella's are about as bright as completely settled in EJ46's so I've got some high hopes for them. Plus the black strings are super metal \m/

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2017 17:57:52

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Sparkly, twinkly, trebles [:D] (in reply to Leñador

The D'addario Pro Arte trebles sound great to me.



Basses too



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2017 20:45:10
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