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Best way to learn Rhythm?   You are logged in as Guest
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El Burro Flamencuro

 

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012
 

Best way to learn Rhythm? 
Hey guys,
I'm looking for advices and oppinions.

How did you guys learn Rhythm and if you feel like sharing...what type of learner are you? auditory, visual, kinesthetic. Only share this info if you feel safe doing so.

I'm primarily a kinesthetic learner, but i have a hint of auditory learning as well. ...just found out today.

I'm really just looking for advice from another kinesthetic learner who knows flamenco...to get their knowledge about what worked best for them.

I've listened to music for years, and played guitar for years too. but my practice isn't the most disciplined. and that's how kinesthetic learners do things...by doing but flamenco rhythms are too hard for me to grasp doing it that way!

Thanks guys.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 3:16:00
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Best way to learn Rhythm? (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro) 
Dance classes, that's the only way. Get yelled at by angry dance teachers.

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 4:12:50
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Best way to learn Rhythm? (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro) 
What do you find particularly difficult about "flamenco rhythms"?
Forcing yourself to count the beat out loud can help if you're struggling.
I do it from time to time with passages where I'm a bit iffy on the rhythm. Slow it down and count the beats.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 7:56:00
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Best way to learn Rhythm? (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burro Flamencuro
I'm primarily a kinesthetic learner, but i have a hint of auditory learning as well. ...just found out today.

You seem to be pigeonholing yourself with jargon from one particular psychological model that may not be the most adapted here. This dichotomy between learn through doing and learn through listenning looks awkward and unhelpful for learning flamenco because you must learn to both listen and do. The listening should be a huge part of the doing otherwise your flamenco will just be free jazz.

In alternative psychological models learning style is equated with learning strengths. But if listening is your problem then you should focus on your weekness. Listen to the greats and try immitating them in minute detail. Slow down recordings to really get the nuances. And record yourself often and upload here - this can really help to keep the free jazz in check when there's no angery dance teacher at hand.

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 8:55:54
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Best way to learn Rhythm? (in reply to Dudnote) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burro Flamencuro
I'm primarily a kinesthetic learner, but i have a hint of auditory learning as well. ...just found out today.

You seem to be pigeonholing yourself with jargon from one particular psychological model that may not be the most adapted here. This dichotomy between learn through doing and learn through listening looks awkward and unhelpful for learning flamenco because you must learn to both listen and do.


Yep the thought of learning rhythms 'only by doing', without listening (auditory) with any kind of music is plain daft.

BTW El Burro, there is no evidence to support to support the idea of learning styles, despite it having traction in various educational institutions:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/12/no-evidence-to-back-idea-of-learning-styles
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 9:10:16
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Best way to learn Rhythm? (in reply to Dudnote) 
quote:

then you should focus on your weekness


I don't know man. I think he should focus on his monthness.


(I'm long gone by now, unless I can get some kind of obnoxiousness award for that?)

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 9:30:46
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15160
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Best way to learn Rhythm? (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burro Flamencuro

Hey guys,
I'm looking for advices and oppinions.

How did you guys learn Rhythm and if you feel like sharing...what type of learner are you? auditory, visual, kinesthetic. Only share this info if you feel safe doing so.

I'm primarily a kinesthetic learner, but i have a hint of auditory learning as well. ...just found out today.

I'm really just looking for advice from another kinesthetic learner who knows flamenco...to get their knowledge about what worked best for them.

I've listened to music for years, and played guitar for years too. but my practice isn't the most disciplined. and that's how kinesthetic learners do things...by doing but flamenco rhythms are too hard for me to grasp doing it that way!

Thanks guys.


I took drums as a kid so by the time I got into flamenco seriously, I was into reading and rhythmic notation. I would make transcriptions pretty detailed. My very first trip to spain revealed something fundamentally wrong with the way I was trying to pick up rhythms. There were people in class that were not at my personal playing level, but LEARNING and memorizing the material in class orders of magnitude faster than I could. Almost instantly as if it was a review for them...and I mean a LARGE amount of people around me. So I knew there was something different going on. What I discovered about compas in flamenco, is that rhythm is like a language rather than mathematics. A single phrase executed by the teacher has the rhythm clearly expressed like a sentence. Everybody picking it up got the point of it in ONE hearing, were as I was going word by word and wanted to hear it repeated so many times. I had to completely change my thinking about rhythm.

The closest music discipline to what I am describing is the Indian rhythm method called "konokol". If you have access to this it will help you and anyone a lot. The only difference is the specifics of the sounds you might use will be different in the world of flamenco. I had transcribed the music of Tauromagia at one time, and finally noticed that the vocalizations used musically by the singers were actually rhythmic "sentences". Things like "trabili tran tran traaaaaaan, tiri tran-tran trero....", "arsa y toma, arsa y toma, trabili tran..." "toma que-toma que-toma ...." etc .....extremely similar to the Indian konokol method.

The basic idea is that if you can SAY a rhythmic phrase at tempo, then you can eventually execute it some how. Here is an example of a flamenco rhythm most experienced folks will know by the sound.

Taka-taka, taka-taka, TAH...(tah... tah... tah...) ta-ka-ti, ta-ka-ti, ta-ka-ti, TAH...(tah)...TAH...repeat.

Though it's just a rhythm that can apply to several contexts in flamenco, many will have even the exact palo in their head after reading that. Anyway, applying this thing to learning falsetas and compas will really help.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 10:51:09
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Best way to learn Rhythm? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Taka-taka, taka-taka, TAH...(tah... tah... tah...) ta-ka-ti, ta-ka-ti, ta-ka-ti, TAH...(tah)...TAH...repeat.


Sounds like solea por takatias to me.

But it's kind of weird how I just assume the "(tah... tah... tah..." part were all offbeats.

The ending could be part of tangatakitos if I read it another way:
"ta-ka-ti ta-ka-ti TAH (tah) TAH ... takataTAH tah"
lol I give up

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2017 11:22:43
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