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RE: Forecast: Flamenco is dying out. Outlook and suggestion to recover!
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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 RE: Forecast: Flamenco is dying out.... (in reply to Morante)
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The topic of art; so dragged into whateverism and yet so essential in the same time.
Really intelligent classification can be heard on its relevance and bettering to culture, yet simultaneously gratifying awkward dilettantism that suspends the very attributes to a bettering of culture and civilization through skill and effect / message.
All I can say over and over again is: Either art be everyone´s skill in an artisan culture like of American Indians where everyone learns his skills traditionally (as it should optimally be to start with, for clumsiness only coming about where offspring has no practice), and where there does not even exist a specialized term like "art", or if there exists a dedicated term of "art", then it should bear traceable proficiency of artwork and actual effect / message.
Because watering down through whateverism in "art", as chic as it may appear to trendy fools and pseudo intellectuals, leads to the exact counter effect of cognitive and societal bettering.
Hence, art experts who praise and release thick glossy twaddle on what they can´t distinguish themselves from ape´s or elephant´s creations, better followed down-to-earth professions that actually fit them.
Right here on the foro, where everyone understands what a difference between the art of flamenco and fakemenco is, let alone amateur´s clumsy wannabe 'flamenco', the principle of immanent quality in art is being clear enough anyway.
Who found it unjust and irrational how a Manitas de Plata sacked in in large halls while hardly recognized flamenco virtuosos had to make due with pocket money in restaurants. Who thought it not only a pity how market share went in support of the pseudo thing while spreading false and less demanding content, should understand just the more what diluting through wannabe artists means, who aren´t / weren´t even remotely close to skills once presented by de Plata.
Unfortunately, the least of bullsh!tters are humble enough to admit that their clients were clueless fools to pay for useless trash, like Joseph Beuys did at least in his last days. Apparently for disconnected fashionable admirers the one and only way to realize the blatantly obvious. -And for gallery owners and agents, living very best especially from mass of baloney, not even then. They rather turn the confession into just another act of art.
After all, the emperor´s new clothes are made of blossoming silk and gold thread.
But cultural progress consists of skill and pointing out relevance; not of nill and bubble.
Had cavemen randomly thrown colors on rocks, sculptured blobs and made music without rhythm and melody, we´d still be just there, in caves and skins.
What surreal epoch we´ve come to, where basic truism ran over by plain commercialism and hollow reaction, is needing pointers and explication at all.
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Date Jul. 17 2017 14:55:02
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estebanana
Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Forecast: Flamenco is dying out.... (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
Unfortunately, the least of bullsh!tters are humble enough to admit that their clients were clueless fools to pay for useless trash, like Joseph Beuys did at least in his last days.
One of my sculpture teachers, Jim Blevins, had a residency art grant to live in Scotland in the mid 1970's. He had a studio in the complex shared with a few other artists. Joseph Beuys came to stay for a few weeks as a guest artist and to teach. Beuys had already done most of his famous 'actions' by that time and had become an art star, in as much as one could be an art star in the 70's. His works we're selling in Blue Chip galleries and he was at the height of his fame. Outside the art world he was a nobody really, who knew who Joseph Beuys was? Not very many people.
Jim told me that he and Beuys had a lot of time to spend together when the formal teaching sessions were not happening. One of the most interesting things he told me that Beuys said was that Beuys knew he had become a commodity and that his actions or performances were becoming less about conveying metaphor- transformation of his ideas in a meaningful sense, and more about what the art viewer and market expected he would do. Beuys said he knew he was repeating actions or creating works that were mannerisms or verging on mannerism because he one day caught himself tucking his shirt tails into his pants before he performed an action, in order to make himself look neater and more acceptable. He said that small gesture alerted him to a greater understanding of self awareness of expectations placed upon him by fans and market and that he began to change and turn from actions to teaching.
Beuys work is comprised as much of making objects as it is of teaching. And because he was self aware that he was a commodity, he taught as his sculptural 'work product' because it was more real, more transformational. He considered his teaching a 'social sculpture'. So rather than continue to make a performance that was becoming less about metaphor and direct meaning, he turned from that because he feared with his level of fame and mystique his 'actions' for example 'I like American and America likes me' or 'Explaining pictures to a dead hare' would become mere theatrical pieces instead of timeless actions.
So Beuys began to teach as his main body of work, and teaching meant that he sometimes used objects or drew and wrote on blackboards as a visual aid to his ideas. He allowed the byproducts of his teaching sessions to be sold as works of art, because they represented his teaching. And as a man with a family and bills to pay and children to get through school he knew he had to sell a work product to make a living.
Some teachers write books, others give lectures, but Beuys was not a writer, he was a teacher of sculpture who transcended the traditional meaning of sculpture and wanted to teach the concept of sculpture as a social movement. He taught about how to think about shaping society in whimsical, serious, environmental, feminist, spiritual, metaphorical ways. And where he ended up was leaving the making of a traditional art object, like a sculpture of a cross or a head, or a torso, and on to the making of objects that represented his teaching about social values. He sold the 'evidence' of his teaching sessions. And he knew that the teaching was more important than the object.
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Date Jul. 19 2017 11:33:06
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Piwin
Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: Forecast: Flamenco is dying out.... (in reply to Ruphus)
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If you want to pick a fight, find somebody else, I'm not in the mood. I made a joke. Like the joke, don't like it. But whatever twisted couch-psychologist sh*t you're trying to pull, you can just drop it. You didn't like the joke and you wrongly thought I was making fun of you. So goes it.
Now, I won't be bothering with this cheap attempt at ressuscitating a necro topic, except to set the record straight and say that I never said anything about anyone being "good people". Nothing pisses me off more than people who use quotation marks without any regard to the words that were actually used or who used them. It took me a sum total of 1min and 4 clics of the mouse to verify what I said...and it ain't what you say I said. geez.
For the rest, the way you portrayed every single one of my opinions is so far from what I actually wrote that there's really nothing else to do except encourage you to go back and read that thread again (and if you want to continue that discussion, post a response on that thread, not on this one. This one is serious. It's about black dildos and it'd be foolish to derail such a deep discussion). I'm not sure what company you think I'm in, but at the very least they're not made of straw and lies.
That's all. I need to go run some errands. I've just realized I'm out of butter.
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Date Jul. 19 2017 16:26:34
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pundi64
Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand
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RE: Forecast: Flamenco is dying out.... (in reply to Piwin)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Piwin
If you want to pick a fight, find somebody else, I'm not in the mood. I made a joke. Like the joke, don't like it. But whatever twisted couch-psychologist sh*t you're trying to pull, you can just drop it. You didn't like the joke and you wrongly thought I was making fun of you. So goes it.
Now, I won't be bothering with this cheap attempt at ressuscitating a necro topic, except to set the record straight and say that I never said anything about anyone being "good people". Nothing pisses me off more than people who use quotation marks without any regard to the words that were actually used or who used them. It took me a sum total of 1min and 4 clics of the mouse to verify what I said...and it ain't what you say I said. geez.
For the rest, the way you portrayed every single one of my opinions is so far from what I actually wrote that there's really nothing else to do except encourage you to go back and read that thread again (and if you want to continue that discussion, post a response on that thread, not on this one. This one is serious. It's about black dildos and it'd be foolish to derail such a deep discussion). I'm not sure what company you think I'm in, but at the very least they're not made of straw and lies.
That's all. I need to go run some errands. I've just realized I'm out of butter.
Piwin, calm down buddy, count to 10 slowly, hate to see you have a event, that we all in this forum, would regret.
I hope everyone, including myself, in here, feels the same way, life is way too short, to get blood pressure up to the bursting point. I'm only trying to ease your frustration.
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Date Jul. 19 2017 21:20:15
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Forecast: Flamenco is dying out.... (in reply to pundi64)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pundi64
Piwin, calm down buddy, count to 10 slowly, hate to see you have a event, that we all in this forum, would regret.
I hope everyone, including myself, in here, feels the same way, life is way too short, to get blood pressure up to the bursting point. I'm only trying to ease your frustration.
We PMed and shook hands. :O)
I had mistaken / not been meant. ... and been misquoting too. 
Will delete my text above now.
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Date Jul. 19 2017 21:50:39
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estebanana
Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Forecast: Flamenco is dying out.... (in reply to Piwin)
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quote:
If you want to pick a fight, find somebody else, I'm not in the mood. I made a joke. Like the joke, don't like it. But whatever twisted couch-psychologist sh*t you're trying to pull, you can just drop it. You didn't like the joke and you wrongly thought I was making fun of you. So goes it.
Now, I won't be bothering with this cheap attempt at ressuscitating a necro topic, except to set the record straight and say that I never said anything about anyone being "good people". Nothing pisses me off more than people who use quotation marks without any regard to the words that were actually used or who used them. It took me a sum total of 1min and 4 clics of the mouse to verify what I said...and it ain't what you say I said. geez.
For the rest, the way you portrayed every single one of my opinions is so far from what I actually wrote that there's really nothing else to do except encourage you to go back and read that thread again (and if you want to continue that discussion, post a response on that thread, not on this one. This one is serious. It's about black dildos and it'd be foolish to derail such a deep discussion). I'm not sure what company you think I'm in, but at the very least they're not made of straw and lies.
That's all. I need to go run some errands. I've just realized I'm out of butter.
Your massive amount of butthurtness I surmise is a symptom of your pain at withdrawing from the cessation of a very perverse behavior you finally came to grips with. Good for you. I know you have been buttering cats, and it's ok. Many people butter cats and it can be addictive, buttered cats are hell to withdraw from. Once you start buttering cats it's a sure downhill spiral to buttering dogs and porcupines. Some addicts even move on to buttering Rhinos and giraffes. Be glad you've not gone that far down the road.
Get help and stay in your therapy. Quitting cat buttering cold turkey is rough. We understand why you are in a such a mood. We'll get through this together, we support you.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jul. 19 2017 22:56:54
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