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RE: Picado journey to >160bpm   You are logged in as Guest
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mark indigo

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to Ricardo

thanks, vids clear it up.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2016 16:51:53
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2854
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to Ricardo

I never practiced that Paco lick from Entre dos aguas...anyway I think I drag my finger. My attempt...

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2016 2:29:10

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

quote:

For those with picado skills, I'm wondering your thoughts:

Over the years, the progress in picado I've made seems to have to do with the efficiency of movement around finger placement. Yes of course speed and all the rest, but once upon a time I remember the whole thing being equally challenging: playing the notes evenly, and crossing the strings.
Now the notes aren't the problem - it's crossing the strings. Picado's that travel 5 and 6 strings I stumble on, whereas playing on one string - especially in position - isn't hard.

The feeling is that when playing on one string, everything is tightly centered around that string. But when crossing strings, it's like there's a huge jump. Almost like if a drummer was playing 16ths on a snare, and then suddenly jumps over to the tom.

Am I alone? Any suggestions for how to approach this?


How long have you been regularly/daily practicing your technique?
Have you had one on one personal instruction at some point?

You said "over the years". Have you been working on it everyday for more than
5 years? Less than 3 years?
This has everything to do with how far along you should be.
You might have a special issue with string crossing OR you may just be
going through the normal learning curve.

People expect it all to happen way too fast.
These things take time. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. It takes many years.

I switched to conventional technique almost 6 years ago, and i am just recently feeling comfortable with 160bpm. And i had already played nylon string guitar for well over 30 years. More recently after my second child was born, i have less practice time, but i still get to it almost everyday, just not very long. But for most of those 6 years i was practicing picado fairly heavily everyday.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2016 18:51:25
 
rombsix

Posts: 7608
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to ToddK

quote:

I switched to conventional technique almost 6 years ago


Wow - time is flying...

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2016 21:08:13

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to rombsix

quote:

Wow - time is flying...


Its crazy is'nt it? It goes faster as you get older.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2016 21:44:04
 
rombsix

Posts: 7608
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to ToddK

quote:

Its crazy is'nt it? It goes faster as you get older.


God damn...

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2016 21:46:08
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13334
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to ToddK

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

quote:

For those with picado skills, I'm wondering your thoughts:

Over the years, the progress in picado I've made seems to have to do with the efficiency of movement around finger placement. Yes of course speed and all the rest, but once upon a time I remember the whole thing being equally challenging: playing the notes evenly, and crossing the strings.
Now the notes aren't the problem - it's crossing the strings. Picado's that travel 5 and 6 strings I stumble on, whereas playing on one string - especially in position - isn't hard.

The feeling is that when playing on one string, everything is tightly centered around that string. But when crossing strings, it's like there's a huge jump. Almost like if a drummer was playing 16ths on a snare, and then suddenly jumps over to the tom.

Am I alone? Any suggestions for how to approach this?


How long have you been regularly/daily practicing your technique?
Have you had one on one personal instruction at some point?

You said "over the years". Have you been working on it everyday for more than
5 years? Less than 3 years?
This has everything to do with how far along you should be.
You might have a special issue with string crossing OR you may just be
going through the normal learning curve.

People expect it all to happen way too fast.
These things take time. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. It takes many years.

I switched to conventional technique almost 6 years ago, and i am just recently feeling comfortable with 160bpm. And i had already played nylon string guitar for well over 30 years. More recently after my second child was born, i have less practice time, but i still get to it almost everyday, just not very long. But for most of those 6 years i was practicing picado fairly heavily everyday.


Here is a quote of mine, replying to your prediction in jan 2010:

quote:

quote:

Ive gotten to 16ths at 160bpm in one year. I will reach 200bpm in another 2 years max. Check back here in a couple of years,


Cool. Do you mean long lines? Like say G on the first string down to open E the 6th? I bet, sorry to sound pessimistic, in 2 years you will bottom out around 175 bpm. My guess is you can do some speedy bursts around 200 now though if you are warm. Well, we shall wait and see I guess!

Ricardo


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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2016 12:31:50
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to ToddK

Thanks for the feedback Todd. I only came to nylon string and fingerstyle playing about 15 years ago after an initial 15 of pick playing.
I know I have a lot of inefficiencies in my playing and habits that I doubt I'll be able to change at this point, largely because I play for a living and don't have the time to commit to only playing in practice what will be better in the long run. (super slow-super efficient).
So currently I work on things like this:



This is an exercise I came up with as a way of minimizing "i" vs "m" favoritism. By playing 3 notes per string (more or less.. I vary that too), and playing i-m, but switching the rhythm between 8th and 16th notes, the point of "gear change" is constantly falling on different strings, at different places with different fingers. As you can see I get stumbled by it a couple times.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2016 4:12:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13334
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

quote:

ORIGINAL: turnermoran

Thanks for the feedback Todd. I only came to nylon string and fingerstyle playing about 15 years ago after an initial 15 of pick playing.
I know I have a lot of inefficiencies in my playing and habits that I doubt I'll be able to change at this point, largely because I play for a living and don't have the time to commit to only playing in practice what will be better in the long run. (super slow-super efficient).
So currently I work on things like this:



This is an exercise I came up with as a way of minimizing "i" vs "m" favoritism. By playing 3 notes per string (more or less.. I vary that too), and playing i-m, but switching the rhythm between 8th and 16th notes, the point of "gear change" is constantly falling on different strings, at different places with different fingers. As you can see I get stumbled by it a couple times.


You pretty much are doing fine IMO, but the sound of the 16ths are weaker than the 8ths in the fast version. The reason I feel is because you are lightening up your attack in order to achieve the speed. What you need to do is work on staccato much more exaggerated in your slow version. It helps to prepare your stroke so even if you lighten up the attack as you do for efficiency, a more solid grip or plant before each note will get you a more consistent volume.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2016 10:42:28
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks Ricardo!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2016 16:16:12
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

Been enjoying this video for a study in contrasting picado approaches:

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=oI45goFvesU
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2016 16:24:19
 
kitarist

Posts: 1454
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

It seems that in a couple of places when you go fast the i-finger forgets to move and kind of just coasts along - around 0:37-38, and around 0:42-43. I think you can hear it in the sound too, though it is possible it is just a video artifact and I am imagining things..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2016 17:16:53

payaso

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

The developing speed is certainly very impressive and no doubt further practice will make it more even, with the finger-strokes more equal in timing and volume, but what I really miss is the tone. – that intensely flamenco quality of power, attack and clarity which makes picado at any speed so excitingly alive and impacting
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2016 18:21:30
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2854
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to payaso

Here is an exercise I came up with that I like to incorporate during warmups.. On the descending run, i would try and not drag the m finger. This is around 153 bpm 16th notes..


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2016 15:16:05
 
athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to mark indigo

olé jg!
great tone, control and speed.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2016 15:57:21
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2854
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

Same scale at 160 bpm.... 160 is a really nice tempo for practice.... Sorry if I hijacked the thread..


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2016 16:16:57
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to mark indigo



Who needs picado when you have tirando? Its like climbing a mountain backwards just because you can...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2016 18:43:03
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to jg7238

OK.. now you're just showing off.

But that's a tasty line.
Gonna work on that. Thanks JG
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2016 2:55:57
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2854
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

Nah...Quite frankly I was just trying to give you a booster but my method didn't work this time. You definitely have a nice picado and should have no problems achieving your goal.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2016 15:37:53
 
rombsix

Posts: 7608
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

Who needs picado when you have tirando? Its like climbing a mountain backwards just because you can...




_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2016 16:06:33
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to jg7238

To the contrary! Your method totally works! :)
I'm shedding that line already..
No one gets chops without some balls busting after all.

I mean...I hear Paco's dad was kind of a dick.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2016 5:37:35
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2854
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

That's great to hear .. That Paco run from "Entre dos Aguas" that Ricardo posted earlier is a nice one and if you can make it longer that would even better.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2016 14:50:51
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to jg7238

JG - do you work on that Phryg/Whole Tone line starting with both i and also m?

Is easier for me with m. Curious if it matters for you
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2016 0:57:56
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2854
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Picado journey to >160bpm (in reply to turnermoran

quote:

do you work on that Phryg/Whole Tone line starting with both i and also m?


I use both fingers but I have a tendency to start on i. I assume you are referring to the ascending line at the very beginning? If that's the case then that's what I basically do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2016 22:03:42
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