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RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure!   You are logged in as Guest
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mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure! (in reply to IraqiOud

Cante is difficult. I like rumba, tangos and fandangos, but find it hard to listen to heavy cante unless Im n the mood. Spanish singers oversing and it gets annoying
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 7:21:05
 
mark74

 

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 14 2016 7:28:06
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 7:23:09
 
Estevan

Posts: 1891
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure! (in reply to IraqiOud

quote:

Now despite all these similarities, the idea of not understating the actual letras makes me unable to get myself engaged as much as I would like to. Maybe it's just because I'm still in the beginning of the journey and cante is a more mature concept just like Mawwal is in Arabic music which many non-Arab listeners find disturbing to their ears while it could easily bring tears to the eyes of an Arab listener... that's why I would like to hear your opinion.

So it's just because of the language that you can't get into it?
Does that mean that you're allright with the sound of the singing itself? I ask because a lot of people have trouble with the sound of the voices at first, regardless of the meaning.

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 17:28:59
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1689
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure! (in reply to mark74

I see everybody have his own taste..... Tangos, Bulerias, sevillanas etc. Not for me. But Cante Jondo, I am in.
Also Italian opera, but I do not understand a word from it either.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 17:52:23
 
IraqiOud

Posts: 41
Joined: Apr. 3 2016
From: Iraq, Living in North Carolina

RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure! (in reply to Estevan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan

quote:

Now despite all these similarities, the idea of not understating the actual letras makes me unable to get myself engaged as much as I would like to. Maybe it's just because I'm still in the beginning of the journey and cante is a more mature concept just like Mawwal is in Arabic music which many non-Arab listeners find disturbing to their ears while it could easily bring tears to the eyes of an Arab listener... that's why I would like to hear your opinion.

So it's just because of the language that you can't get into it?
Does that mean that you're allright with the sound of the singing itself? I ask because a lot of people have trouble with the sound of the voices at first, regardless of the meaning.


Yes Estevan, for some weird reasons it's all about the language.. The sound of the voices I'm so used to because it's very similar to what is called in Arabic music "Mawwal" and my ears grew up listening to this type of singing but as I mentioned before I think the problem is because I'm watching some tutorials about accompanying singers and I'm actually trying to learn it rather than just enjoy listening to it. For instance one of my favorite singers is Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan despite the fact that I don't speak the language he speaks and I barely understand few words here and there that are close to Arabic language, same goes with Opera I can listen to Pavarotti for hours nonstop and never feel tired of it.. but when it comes to Flamenco I'm haunted by the guitar part but not so hooked up with the cante part of it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 22:10:50
 
Piwin

Posts: 3398
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure! (in reply to IraqiOud

quote:

but as I mentioned before I think the problem is because I'm watching some tutorials about accompanying singers and I'm actually trying to learn it rather than just enjoy listening to it.


listen to a bunch of martinetes? at least that way you wouldn't be distracted by the guitar so you could see whether that is really the "problem" or not.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 23:36:48
 
Estevan

Posts: 1891
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure! (in reply to IraqiOud

quote:

Yes Estevan, for some weird reasons it's all about the language.. The sound of the voices I'm so used to because it's very similar to what is called in Arabic music "Mawwal" and my ears grew up listening to this type of singing but as I mentioned before I think the problem is because I'm watching some tutorials about accompanying singers and I'm actually trying to learn it rather than just enjoy listening to it.

I think you have the solution right here: you're trying too hard, therefore not relaxed and so can't enjoy it, and you are getting into too much detail too soon, and so you can't see where you are going.

The best thing you can do - and this is in agreement with what others have posted above - is just do loads of listening, without attempting to analyse or understand yet.

Make a compilation/playlist of a certain palo (e.g. just soleares) and listen to it over and over without even really paying much attention - even just in the background. Just let it soak in.
You will semi-consciously become familiar with the forms and feelings, and what I would call the structural rhythm - that is, the shape and pacing of the phrases, verses and cadences, and you will gradually come to know what to expect at various points of the song. Until you are familiar with all this then, as you have found, trying to learn accompaniment would be a premature and discouraging project.

As you said, you're fairly new to flamenco, so you need to be patient.

Otherwise, you'll be stuck with this one song which, if you haven't seen/heard it yet, I highly recommend - you'll find it interesting and enjoyable:



_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2016 14:57:55
 
IraqiOud

Posts: 41
Joined: Apr. 3 2016
From: Iraq, Living in North Carolina

RE: Solo, yes... Cante, not so sure! (in reply to Estevan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan

quote:

Yes Estevan, for some weird reasons it's all about the language.. The sound of the voices I'm so used to because it's very similar to what is called in Arabic music "Mawwal" and my ears grew up listening to this type of singing but as I mentioned before I think the problem is because I'm watching some tutorials about accompanying singers and I'm actually trying to learn it rather than just enjoy listening to it.

I think you have the solution right here: you're trying too hard, therefore not relaxed and so can't enjoy it, and you are getting into too much detail too soon, and so you can't see where you are going.

The best thing you can do - and this is in agreement with what others have posted above - is just do loads of listening, without attempting to analyse or understand yet.

Make a compilation/playlist of a certain palo (e.g. just soleares) and listen to it over and over without even really paying much attention - even just in the background. Just let it soak in.
You will semi-consciously become familiar with the forms and feelings, and what I would call the structural rhythm - that is, the shape and pacing of the phrases, verses and cadences, and you will gradually come to know what to expect at various points of the song. Until you are familiar with all this then, as you have found, trying to learn accompaniment would be a premature and discouraging project.

As you said, you're fairly new to flamenco, so you need to be patient.

Otherwise, you'll be stuck with this one song which, if you haven't seen/heard it yet, I highly recommend - you'll find it interesting and enjoyable:





You are absolutely right, and that's exactly what I'm gonna do.. I started to simply just listen to different singers and palos and maybe just enjoy it for the moment rather than trying to learn anything from it...

Funny that you chose this song because it's a very popular traditional Arabic song called "ya reem wadi thaqif" which in Arabic means "Gazelle from Thaqif Valley" "ياريم وادي ثقيف" and at the very end of the video where you hear that young girl singing as she stood up saying: "ya habibi Alf Leila w Leila" It's actually another very famous Arabic song for Um Kalthum called "Alf Leila w Leila" "الف ليلة وليلة" meaning a one thousand and one night which actually confirms what I was saying about the extreme similarity and proximity between flamenco and Arabic music.




Another version on the Oud:



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Ali
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2016 13:58:02
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