Building a classical guitar for the first time

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Ahmed Flamenco

Posts: 163
Joined: Feb. 22 2014
From: Egypt

Building a classical guitar for the ...

hey guys,
I'm gonna make a classical guitar for the first time on a full scale of that plan but with the same size of santos hernandez
I'm afraid that it may not have a good sound,I have different plans of roy coutrall book(if anyone recommend something else)
also I'm gonna use cedar with dark Bolivian rosewood.
What do you think about that?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2016 0:31:52

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

I have built only one guitar with this bracing pattern.
I cannot make friends with it, but Aguardo has built grate guitars with this pattern!

For me it is a little “over engineered”.

I think you become familiar with this pattern if you build a lot of guitars with this plan.

For me, a simple bracing pattern (5 or 7 struts) is easier to handle and gives me the sound I aiming for.

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2016 11:32:23

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

I have buit a handfull of classicals with this design and I like it a lot. Very light and Spanish sounding.
John Williams played a Hernandez y Aguado with this bracing pattern during many years.

I cant see anything overingeneered in it. 7 Braces, 2 closing struts and very lightly braced. Its actually lighter or less ingeneered than most other classical designs. But maybe thats just a metter of opinions.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2016 18:23:18

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1694
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

I hope the plan gives you precise information about how the soundboard should be thicknessed, as that could be more important than the layout of the braces.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2016 19:27:15

mmmenk

Posts: 54
Joined: Dec. 26 2015

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

Bravo.
You love the guitar so much that you desire to create one.
What could be a better start to a wonderful and bitter relationship?
At this point you are motivated, and any thing that you do will work well for you.
Look at some nice guitars, and do your own version. Teach us.
M.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 5:52:07

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

Anders:
"Over engineered" is perhaps not what I really wanted to express.
In most cases, people are inspired from fancy or flashy designs and the idea is close thereby to get something very special.
Basically we should study the guitars made by other luthiers and their type of construction certainly. I’m sure we can learn a lot from doing this. The idea, however, to copy these guitars and achieve the same result is in my view wrong.
The popular Luthiers have themselves often copied ideas. Gradually experiences were collected and, for example, the bracing pattern would be changed slightly. So these guitars become what they are today.
In my opinion, especially the Bracing Pattern is overrated. There are so many variations of it and many are good and have been successful in building excellent guitars.
The bracing pattern alone is not so important, it need the right boundary conditions (weight of the bridge, thicknesses of the top, Kerfings etc.).
Amazing how similar the guitars sound with different bracing when they were built by the same luthier.
A guitar is just a synthesis of the arts. To get some inspiration and ideas by others is good, but these need to be integrated fully into its own building concept meaningful.
Conclusion: Almost every plan is good to start a project. Feeling, individuality and a sense of proportion in the construction will lead to success. And if not, then the next time ;-)

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 6:54:41

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

Ok Vince.
I think you know, if you have read a few posts of mine over the years, that i agree 100% with your last post.

One of the "standard layouts" in classical guitar bracing is the asymetrical 7 brace where 1 brace is put almost parallel to the lower harmonic bar. Its also sometimes called the asymetrical 6 brace system.
There are many of them. The Hernandez y Aguado is the one I have seen that has the lightest bracing. Others are much more heavy. Others like Robert Ruck make a version where some braces are very wide and very low. There´s an enormous variety in classical soundboard bracing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 8:07:46

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

I hope the plan gives you precise information about how the soundboard should be thicknessed, as that could be more important than the layout of the braces.

I 100% disagree with this Ethan.
Soundboard thickness is totally dependant on the physical aspects of each soundboard. Where 1 soundboard should be 2mm thick, another one should be 2.5mm thick. Some builders like the hardest and stiffest soundboard while others prefer a ligher one that should be left bit thicker. None of them are better than the other. What is important is that the soundboard works with the builders way of building.

I believe that the most important part of building stringed wooden instrument is to control the thickness of the soundboard and find out what kind of soundboard works the best for each and everyone.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 8:12:24

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

Sometimes I wish I could try all this entire pattern and construction details first and then find out my preferred System. The problem is I’m now 43 Years old. Unfortunately I have to sell some guitars before I’m 100 years old, so I must make decisions.

For my Flamenco Guitars I have found my way to build (similar to 5 Strut Barbero).
For my Classical Guitars I am still on the way!

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 8:23:22

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

Best of luck Ahmed. Don't rush the build and concentrate on a having a nice clean build. Given that I am sure the guitar will sound fine. Your choice of woods sound good to

Given that this is Ahmeds first classical guitar and second? guitar in total I would rather give the advice to follow the plans board thickness than to suggest working it out for himself. After all what base line does he have to work from.

I have a fairly set thickness for my classical guitars that work's very well. Occasionally I have to work it a touch thinner but never any where near 0.5mm worth. I always select my own materials from the shop so it is much easier to get consistant feeling soundboards.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 13:57:00

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

Yes, good advices.
Another one could be to buy David Schramm´s DVD (or cd-rom) called onlineapprentice 1.
It follows the building of a Herman Hauser classical and is very well documented with hundreds of photos and explanations.
Besides, the Hauser is basically a Torres Classical, which means back to basics and learn from the bottom before doing some of the variations that were made later on. And the Torres/Hauser produces a lovely sounding guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 15:14:01

mmmenk

Posts: 54
Joined: Dec. 26 2015

RE: Building a classical guitar for ... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)

You can use this plan and make a great guitar. You can use any plan and make a great guitar, just do not expect to become an overnight sensation.
It takes years just to learn to sharpen and use your hand tools.
And longer to learn to listen and feel the wood and the response of all the parts, and even longer to learn to be a great finisher and do all the fine details.
It is a life long learning experience, please have fun and enjoy the ride.
The joy is in the doing, there is nothing like stringing up your first guitar!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2016 7:30:09