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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to jshelton5040

Okay, John, I will--was a bit concerned about fit, but I'll go for the Gotohs!

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 30 2015 22:36:29
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3467
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

Miguel,

That Hand, Foot, and Mouth disease sounds terrible. Did you go to a physician? Any idea how you contracted it?

Regarding a luthier, I have visited James Greenberg, owner of Zavaleta's (look up his website) in Tucson (actually Oro Valley, where Marta and I just visited), and in fact several years ago bought a Manueal Adalid blanca from him. I know he has a luthier in Tucson that does work for him. I forget the luthier's name, but I'm sure he is good because James has him work on the high-end guitars he imports from Spain.

I'm sure if you E-mail James via his website, he probably could advise you of the luthier he uses. It might be worth a trip to Tucson if you could obtain the services of a very good luthier.

Cheers,

Bill

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With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2015 2:56:06
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to BarkellWH

Bill, yes, it has been a rough week. Now the skin of my hands is peeling off in large chunks. It's a good thing I don't have any gigs for a few days. I wonder if the new skin will have to rebuild calluses. I don't have a diagnosis, but the symptoms match online descriptions and a child in our circle was diagnosed with it. It appears my daughter got it at one of her activities and passed it on to me. The symptoms were mild for my daughter and we'd never have known she had gotten it except in retrospect. Where I had dozens of sores, she had maybe four or five total. According to the CDC, it is a common disease usually affecting the 5 and under crowd. It is not some kind of exotic livestock-human crossover plague!

Thanks for the idea of visiting Mr. Greenburg. I hope I will not have to drive two hours just to get my tuning machines swapped out. It does appear to be the case that no nylon-string guitar luthiers reside in the Phoenix area.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2015 4:00:13
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

So now the skin has peeled off, leaving that kind of red, tender layer. I am not sure I am going to be ready to play by this weekend--10 hours of gigging. Any ideas for something I could put on the fingertips to strengthen them?

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2015 19:57:07
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Thanks for the idea of visiting Mr. Greenburg. I hope I will not have to drive two hours just to get my tuning machines swapped out. It does appear to be the case that no nylon-string guitar luthiers reside in the Phoenix area.

Miguel,
There must be a music store with a repairman in the Phoenix area. It doesn't take a luthier to change tuners. You can do it yourself with nothing more than a small phillips screwdriver and something with a point (a cheap compass comes to mind).

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2015 20:48:10
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

Update:
Have not yet swapped out the tuners.

However, after lubricating them with mineral oil, there has been a marked improvement! It took me a while to get some oil and it didn't seem to matter at first. But now, the low E string tuners works fine. It does have a bit of a gritty action to it, and I would wager the essential problem remains. But for the moment, it is acceptable.

Thanks to Ricardo for the tip!

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2015 16:54:51
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

More tuner issues (in reply to Miguel de Maria

Last we left our hero, he had used some mineral oil to loosen up his tuners as suggested by an old wives' tale (just joking: tip from Ricardo); it did help somewhat. Although I meant to replace the tuners, I have a lot of gigs and just never made the time. Life went on... this morning, I was changing the strings when one of the gears popped off the 2nd string. Recall, the tightness had been on the 6th string. There is a screw that holds on the gear, and it was missing. There is also a washer under the screw, and I never heard or noticed that fall, either. I was down on the ground for ten minutes and could not find it at all. I did not hear anything. I thank maybe it must have fallen off at some earlier time and I never noticed it. I have been playing gigs for the last 4 days straight and never noticed anything.

I remembered that I had some unused tuners down in the garage from 2003 when I thought I was going to become a luthier despite never having made anything out of wood, not even a birdhouse. Turns out they are the cheap Gotoh tuners. I meant to cannibalize them, but they have different screw sizes. I ended up just replacing one side. It fits well, although there is a bit of tightness. Three of the screws line up almost perfectly, the other does not. I guess that means I should order some good Gotohs and it will work fine. These are the cheapest tuners, and lighter and have a cheaper feel than what Cordoba was using stock. It seems to work, hopefully it won't fail in the next few weeks.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 16 2015 16:07:13
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1696
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

Miguel doesn't need to waste money on high end tuners just a set of Gotoh's


Gotohs are very nice and I think Sloane are equivalent. I consider them upper-medium end.

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www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 16 2015 16:32:12
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

I just ordered the mid-level of the "economy" tuners, it was $61 plus shipping. The step up tuners were $200 and that just seems a lot. The tuners the guitar came with lasted ten years, so hopefully it will work out. If I were feeling just a bit more flush, maybe I would have gone for higher-end ones. I just read a thread at Delcamp where these guys were posting pictures of "tuner-porn", Grafs and Rodgers and other $300-$1800 tuners.

Is there a reason we don't use the steel-string tuners for our flamenco/classicals? My tenor ukulele has that style and I like them.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 16 2015 16:36:31
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Is there a reason we don't use the steel-string tuners for our flamenco/classicals? My tenor ukulele has that style and I like them.


Are you talking about individual sealed gear tuners? I imagine weight would be an issue which is why I imagine people don't use them, and aesthetics too; tradition and flamenco seem to be inescapable.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 16 2015 18:57:22
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to tijeretamiel

You also have this kind:



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 16 2015 19:30:29
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1696
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

Is there a reason we don't use the steel-string tuners for our flamenco/classicals? My tenor ukulele has that style and I like them.


I think the gear ratios are different for steel strings, which are at much higher tension.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 16 2015 19:44:17
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

My Koaloha tenor ukulele has these tuners:

http://dominator.ukeland.com/index2.shtml
https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/a_exif/v1441514719/qg8aycw8twxlptjzd2kx.jpg

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 16 2015 20:27:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: More tuner issues (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Last we left our hero, he had used some mineral oil to loosen up his tuners as suggested by an old wives' tale (just joking: tip from Ricardo); it did help somewhat. Although I meant to replace the tuners, I have a lot of gigs and just never made the time. Life went on... this morning, I was changing the strings when one of the gears popped off the 2nd string. Recall, the tightness had been on the 6th string. There is a screw that holds on the gear, and it was missing. There is also a washer under the screw, and I never heard or noticed that fall, either. I was down on the ground for ten minutes and could not find it at all. I did not hear anything. I thank maybe it must have fallen off at some earlier time and I never noticed it. I have been playing gigs for the last 4 days straight and never noticed anything.

I remembered that I had some unused tuners down in the garage from 2003 when I thought I was going to become a luthier despite never having made anything out of wood, not even a birdhouse. Turns out they are the cheap Gotoh tuners. I meant to cannibalize them, but they have different screw sizes. I ended up just replacing one side. It fits well, although there is a bit of tightness. Three of the screws line up almost perfectly, the other does not. I guess that means I should order some good Gotohs and it will work fine. These are the cheapest tuners, and lighter and have a cheaper feel than what Cordoba was using stock. It seems to work, hopefully it won't fail in the next few weeks.


Glad my advice gave you a temporary fix. Unfortunately you missed the part where I talked also about the loose screw situation....while perhaps the 6th string might have been in order, my implications were to oil ALL the gears and tighten ALL the screws, sorry I didn't make that clear earlier. For anybody else that might come across this thread with similar problems, it doesn't hurt to keep maintainence on your tuning machines on occasion.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 17 2015 16:13:36
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More tuner issues (in reply to Ricardo

Oops! Yeah, I did no maintenance at all for about 9 years. A little would have helped.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2015 17:18:14
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

Received the Gotohs today. Emboldened by the success of my emergency swap-out, I decided to change them myself. The were heavier and nicer than the cheap $15 ones. However, to my surprise, they were a bit lighter and maybe not as nice as the stock ones. I guess the FCWE really did get better fittings than a run-of-the-mill Cordoba. I was able to get them in, but managed to botch the two screws I had to drill. Neither of them are sitting flush, although I guess they are doing the job.

One thing is that the rollers are a bit tight in their holes in the first and sixth strings. They work, but clearly take more muscle to move than the others. Is this something to be concerned about?

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2015 1:57:25
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

In the classic "the foro told you so!!!" JINX....a month ago I was just finished with final rehersal touch ups and had AN HOUR to go before the big theatre show we do each year, totally sold out, I was back stage changing my strings when the D string tuner froze. I haden't made it up to pitch. I back wound it and tried again. The gear was worn totally and at the same position in either direction it froze and finally stripped so the gear teeth would just hop over the worm, not tuning up any further. THANKS FORO!!!

Considering the stress involved with opening night of show...and I am the ONLY Guitarist with NO way to fix it and only an hour to go, I told none of the dancers or show promoters, (only the singers new and were stressing), I called my wife, luckily not working that night....she ran home grabbed another guitar and drove to the theatre 45 minutes away!

So 10 minutes to show time, and the other guitar arrived with really old dead strings. I changed em in 5 minutes and we went out. I was worried about the fact we had already done sound checks with other guitar but it was basically fine. Now these tuners were my most used tuners (bass side) than any other guitar I own. Gotohs...pretty expensive ones. THey out lasted 2.5 tap plates at least...but...I have to go on record that if tuners DO become stiff, oil em to keep em going at home but if it is a gig guitar, change the tuners as others suggested. Nothing lasts forever for sure, learned my lesson, carry on.

PS....I want to show pic of my new tuner, but foro no longer accepts photos from my photo library using Ipod/Iphone....anybody work out this problem?

(figured out this "trick" at least)
http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/313/Ki19506.jpeg

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 4 2015 16:03:06
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: tuner becoming stiff (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Received the Gotohs today. Emboldened by the success of my emergency swap-out, I decided to change them myself. The were heavier and nicer than the cheap $15 ones. However, to my surprise, they were a bit lighter and maybe not as nice as the stock ones. I guess the FCWE really did get better fittings than a run-of-the-mill Cordoba. I was able to get them in, but managed to botch the two screws I had to drill. Neither of them are sitting flush, although I guess they are doing the job.

One thing is that the rollers are a bit tight in their holes in the first and sixth strings. They work, but clearly take more muscle to move than the others. Is this something to be concerned about?

Tuners rollers should easily slide into the holes. If the fit is tight it creates binding and increased wear. It sounds like the holes were not drilled perfectly or the alignment was not correct when tuners were installed. I never drill pilot holes for the screws all that's necessary is something with a point like an awl and some lubricant on the screw (spit works well). First remove the strings and see if the tuners still bind, if they do I suggest you remove all the screws and shift the tuners around to see if you can find a spot where they don't bind. Then put the screws back in (you may have to plug one of two of the pilot holes). If that doesn't work I suggest a trip to the local luthier.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 4 2015 18:17:24
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