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Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro   You are logged in as Guest
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estebanana

 

Posts: 7502
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

Let's have a conversation about Wome... 

I've noticed the drop off of women participants in the times I have been on the Foro since about 2005. Why is this happening?

The idea has been going around that women are not being singled out and pushed away from the Foro. Honestly I can think of a few instances when this has happened.

The majority of the posting on the Foro is respectful to women, but there seems to be an undercurrent of sexism that emerges in the form of jokes. It happens over and over because the Foro is mainly active with male members who write on the board. The Foro has taken on a locker room mentality in some quarters and the speech and the speakers some times forget it is transparent. This is not a locker room.

And if it was a locker room there is still a level of decorum in speech that should be met.

I want to have a conversation about women and the foro. Some questions that come to mind:

How do passive (non posting) female readers perceive the the Foro?
Perhaps we will hear from some of them?

How do active male posters think women perceive the Foro?

How much knowledge is being unheard because there is a dearth of female participants?

Does anyone care about these issues enough to make changes in the Foro culture to include more female participants?

Please discuss.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 1:18:06
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2811
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

Good point for conversation, Stephen. In my several years as a member of the Foro, I have encountered four women. One was Kate, living in Granada with her husband (I believe his name is Harold). Kate used to post on the Foro frequently. If I remember correctly, she had a degree from a British university in Spanish history and language. I recall several topics in which I found her interesting and well-read. I miss Kate's contributions because I found her among the most interesting contributors to the Foro.

Another was Ailsa. I didn't know her well, but I believe she played guitar, and she seemed to take a real interest in flamenco. Haven't seen her posts for about three years.

Of course, Estela is among the most knowledgeable of contributors, and her posts are always interesting. She still posts from time to time. And what I most like about Estela is that she only posts when she has something important or significant to say. She does not blather. And her ideas are always dead-on straight. Really a joy to read Estela's posts.

The only problem (if you can call it that) I have ever encountered was with someone who began posting about two years ago, but only for a short while and then she stopped. My run-in with her was when she posted something criticizing U.S. immigration policy. Now, I have had quite a bit of experience with U.S. immigration policy, having had a career with the U.S. State Department and having had experience overseas with adjudicating visas at U.S. Embassies (as well as having some knowledge of overall U.S. immigration policy). I challenged her critique of U.S. immigration policy, noting that the U.S. was among the most generous of all countries in its numbers and variety of intake of legal immigration. The U.S. takes in about one million legal immigrants a year, exceeding all other countries' intake combined.

Unfortunately, the woman in question took great umbrage at my critique. I did not criticize her personally, but I did suggest that the U.S. was not as bad as she made it out to be. She lambasted me for that and wrote that she was not on the Foro to get into arguments (after having made the argument about how bad U.S. immigration policy was!) At any rate, she seemed to think she could take a stand on an issue but it was bad form to challenge her stand.

Overall, I wish more women would contribute to the Foro. I think they have something to say regarding flamenco, as well as on other topics. Aside from my experience with the one woman on the Foro who could not take what she dished out, I have found women to be great company, on the Foro and elsewhere.

As a side note, I have read others' comments about how women have been disrespected on the Foro. I have not seen this, but maybe it occurred before my time.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 2:37:25
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2665
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

I miss Ailsa! So many great people have come and gone on the Foro.

Kalo is another female contributor who hasn't posted in a bit but is a great player. Also Val used to post a lot with dance related things.

There have been a few guys over the years that like to make a lot of raunchy jokes, and no doubt they do drive away women to some degree.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 2:54:42
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3520
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

It is tempting to think the locker room humor is the reason women do not come here. Some of our posters are really quite crude and foul, and it's hard to imagine that anyone besides their tiny circle find them amusing (no, I'm not talking about you, Lenador, my man--you always seem to think I'm singling you out :).

That being said, the classical guitar forums in which I participate have just about the same number of women, yet there is far less shock-mongering.

I have a feeling if you go to rock guitar forums, or bluegrass guitar forums, or, for that matter, racecar-driving or cabinet-making or crab fishing forums, you will also find few women. There just aren't that many female flamenco guitar players--or, I imagine, crab fisher...women.

I just don't see how new rules are going to encourage women to come here. Report posts that violate the old rules and let Simon take care of it. Of course, I do miss Kate--she's one of the few forum members I have met. Just possibly, it's not the language that drove her off but a lack of interest in what a hoard of intermediate-level guitar players talk about... just guessing.

As to whether it would be worth it to change the culture: Yes! And that's something that anyone who cares about it can do. Call people out who are saying unacceptable things, either publicly or privately, by PMing Simon. I don't get the sense that there are really trolls here. The worst offenders probably really think they are being entertaining.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 5:14:10
 
Leñador

Posts: 5226
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

no, I'm not talking about you, Lenador, my man



I think Miguel is again pretty dead on. This IS a flamenco guitar forum, I know it's called "Foro Flamenco" but everyone here is guitar related. What percentage of flamenco guitar players are women? I think it'd be the same if it were a dance forum. Guys might pop in here and there but really it'd be a bunch of girls PMing each other about how ugly the other girls bata is. Even if the guy loved dancing it'd be tough to read a bunch of girls act like girls just like I'm sure it's tough for girls to watch a bunch of guys act like guys.

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 6:50:27
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7502
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

Ok Good, some good thoughts.

As far as Guitar-O-centric discussions dominating, I don't see it that way . This is called Foro Flamenco and many discussions are about aspects of flamenco that don't have a lot to do with guitar.

More later.....

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 7:48:13
 
cristina

 

Posts: 47
Joined: Mar. 7 2014
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

Thank’s Estebanana for bringing up this topic.

I’m pretty new on this foro but now want to share some of my experiences (my english is really horrible, so please be indulgent) – you can skip Nr. 1

1. Am I a guitarrist?
IMO definitly/resolutly: no, I‘m not. I am playing the guitar, I need to play her, I’m learning Flamenco since the 70ies, playing sometimes more, sometimes less. So I would say: I’m a guitar-player.

A „guitarrist“ for me is one, who decided to spend most of his time to the guitar, is a professional or aspiring to be one , or a very advenced guitarrist. P.e. El Farru plays the guitar but is not a guitarrist, the videos with Camaron playing the guitar you will know.

In my youth I decided deliberately, NOT to b e a guitarist and spend 4 – 8 hours a day practising. I’ve had too much other interests and had to gain my money also for the family. But in my later years I was able to comply with one of my main intentions: to accompany el cante when someone wants/needs to sing and there’s no other guitar around.

Once retired, I finaly could play 3 – 6 hours a day. And then a bad, flourishing arthrosis catched me. (therefore more time to write and read the foro)

2. Personal experiences here

- There was one point , where I tought: let it be, no vale la pena, it is’nt worthy. It was the thread about How difficult flamenco is. The answers: the biggest difficulty in Flamenco ist how to go to a peña without your girlfriend. I could have answered only in a cynical way but I don’t want to be cynic.

- The dialalogues/ discussions are too often about „who is right, who hast the ultimative answer and the last word“ - that’s annoying and repugnant and kind of ridiculous. a little kindergarten-like and good example for Freud’s theory about competition ( don’t want to mention the german phrase)

- seems to exist a tendency (not only in this foro) : men take notice of men and react more to them. E.g.: The newest female member is cereza, you gave her a very warm welcome. Her first contribution was the Fandango from Camaron with Paco – silence, no reactions, alone in the desert.
I bet, if she has had put a question , there had been some responses – look, a woman, who needs help!

So, here you are
cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 9:47:08
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 827
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

How do active male posters think women perceive the Foro?


I honestly don't know. But my gut response is that many women would perceive the foro negatively, in part, on account of the locker room atmosphere. (I also suspect many people, women and men, would view it negatively on account of some of the bickering).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 10:34:24
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

I tend to agree with a lot of Miguel de Marias points ... depending on what the action is you will find a varying number of men to women ...
Although you will find girls in all things , if you have to generalize , and i am , you will find on any guitar forum more men than women . in guitar making same , in dancing more women that men in singing maybe the same amount ..

However , i dont fully see what estebanana 's plan is ..
I personally dont see that there is a problem here on women being treated any more or less than any other place ,
In every workplace or recreational event you will find people from all over who treat other differently than you .
some loud , some nice some uncouth .. but nobody really OTT .
everyone welcomes the input of all people ..

cristina made a point earlier that after a post by cereza they was silence and no replies ..I dont think that means anything , some threads just kind of peterout as people loose interest in following them .
I myself have posted bits of falsetas that i played and recorded for the foro and got no replies at all . in fact that happened a few times i wondered if my posts were invisible , alas no , just people didnt comment on them .. but i didnt have to say it was injust or anything was wrong or it made me feel bad or even mention it at all (not including now , as an example )

If there were some remarks that put women off by being derogatory in some way , i think it would be a very small amount , by a very small amount of members i feel absolutely sure that the reason there are less girls here in not because of that .

By all means have this discussion thread but unless you put forward some solid suggestive remedies , i dont see the end result of what you have in mind ...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 10:48:09
 
keith

Posts: 1106
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Land of Daniel Boone

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

it would be more informative to see the number of female and male members joining and the number leaving since 2005 (the year stated in the original post) and then run the numbers to see if there are any significant trends. that at least gives a starting point for asking why something is occurring. maybe there should be an exit survey for folks to take when they drop their memberships.


as to the original question--i have seen very few females at this forum compared to a certain classical guitar forum located in france. there appears to be far fewer female flamenco guitarists compared to female classical guitarist so it makes sense there would be fewer females here (from a statistical standpoint).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 13:17:38

Morante

 

Posts: 1409
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to keith

quote:

as to the original question--i have seen very few females at this forum compared to a certain classical guitar forum located in france. there appears to be far fewer female flamenco guitarists compared to female classical guitarist so it makes sense there would be fewer females here (from a statistical standpoint).


There are far more female dancers than guitarists in the amateur flamenco world; if they were to take part, it could be of great value for guitarists learning to accompany dance.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 13:26:55
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2811
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Morante

quote:

There are far more female dancers than guitarists in the amateur flamenco world; if they were to take part, it could be of great value for guitarists learning to accompany dance.


Your comment suggests that if female dancers were to participate in Foro discussions it would be of value for guitarists, and that is true. But what about dancers discussing dance as a topic in and of itself, without necessarily referencing its value for guitarists? There are many threads on the Foro devoted to Cante, not necessarily referencing its relationship and value for guitarists, but as a discrete topic in and of itself. Why not for dance?

Although the Foro's original, and continuing, emphasis may be the guitar, there is no reason why it could not include dance, just as it has all along included Cante. That might draw more women into the fold and introduce them to other topics for discussion on the Foro as well. And in the end we would all benefit from their presence. I certainly benefited from the comments and perspective of some of the women mentioned in my previous post above.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 14:21:51
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7502
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

I have to say that even though I make guitars full time, I often get bored with non stop talking about them in the context of flamenco. Guitars are guitars but flamenco is different.

When I think of flamenco about the third or forth thing that comes to mind is the guitar. I think I would be ok if there were no more guitars in flamenco. Just cante and palmas and maybe once every few months a guitar.

I associate flamenco with a counter top, a glass of beer and guys who listen to cante and palmas and don't whine about breaking finger nails. Then I think about my dancer friends and how they smoke outside between sets and then order a manzanilla. Then after about 20 minutes I think:"Oh wait! There are these things called guitars and some times you even find person who can play the silly thing and be flamenco and not whine about his scale length."

But I'm strange.

C

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 14:51:06
 
Escribano

Posts: 5862
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to keith

quote:

it would be more informative to see the number of female and male members joining and the number leaving since 2005 (the year stated in the original post) and then run the numbers to see if there are any significant trends.


We don't ask for gender information and cannot assume gender from a display name, so any evidence is mostly anecdotal. I know El Craic, Ailsa and Kate are no longer contributing but I would hazard a guess that this is more to do with the general bullying and childish nonsense that we are trying to address rather than specifically sexist remarks. I have not had a complaint from a female member since we started.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 14:54:19
 
Escribano

Posts: 5862
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to cristina

quote:

The dialalogues/ discussions are too often about „who is right, who hast the ultimative answer and the last word“ - that’s annoying and repugnant and kind of ridiculous. a little kindergarten-like and good example for Freud’s theory about competition


You nailed it Cristina. Thanks for the input.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 15:00:58
 
Cloth Ears

 

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

So true. One thesis having value does not deny the value in another. Furthermore some people have an investment of ego in 'their own' stated thesis, and keep their mind closed to other ideas. It does put off comment from others who are more willing to see more sides of the coin.

Not sure if this is gender related or just immaturity, but difficult for a small team of admins to vet.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 15:09:48
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7502
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

I actually think it is because guitarists who are online a lot tend to have tunnel vision for only guitars an don't really see flamenco in a bigger context.

I also think you are not getting complaints because women are not attracted to hanging out with a bunch of tunnel vision guitar nerds. The women I know who read the foro do it without logging in. They simply have no interest because it is guitar-o-centric and that is a "guy thing".

It's quite sad to me more people don't see flamenco as more than a guitar. It is the the feedback I hear most in person or via correspondence from those I know who are deep into flamenco, but don't post here. I know flamenco concert promoters and high level dancers and afcionados who have a lot of knowledge who think that.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 15:17:01
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2811
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I associate flamenco with a counter top, a glass of beer and guys who listen to cante and palmas and don't whine about breaking finger nails. Then I think about my dancer friends and how they smoke outside between sets and then order a manzanilla. Then after about 20 minutes I think:"Oh wait! There are these things called guitars and some times you even find person who can play the silly thing and be flamenco and not whine about his scale length."


Spot-on, Stephen. I would go even further. I associate flamenco with your counter-top and a glass of beer (or manzanilla), listening to cante and palmas (and a guitar; I'm not adverse to that), with no whining about finger nails and scale length; while at the same time discussing black holes, singularities, the joy of living in Micronesia, and the reasons for Argentina's current (and inevitable once-a decade) financial crisis. In other words, flamenco, not as a discrete activity; rather, intertwined with other interests and activities as a "lived experience," preferably with women at the table.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 15:42:23
 
Leñador

Posts: 5226
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

I'm with you bananasan that it'd be nice if there were more people of varied disciplines. Could it be that only guitar players are nerdy enough to hang out on a forum???

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 15:54:14
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3520
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

Keep in mind the foro was founded, more or less, from a pool of participants in another guitar-centric forum. That might be one of the reasons for its limited scope.

Personally, I came here for guitar-chat and support. As the years go by, I need this less and less, and find online forums in general much less interesting. Before, I was mostly into picado threads, now, I keep my eye out for provacative off-topic stuff--art, politics, history, old man stuff, fun stuff.

If you want a more diverse membership, try to figure out why people talk on forums and try to bring more of the stuff that attracts them. What do flamenco singers and dancers want to know or talk about?

Maybe some experienced guitarists can upload some tutorials to help beginning singers and dancers, or upload some basic compas for them to practice to. Maybe some experienced dancers can upload some vid of them dancing, and the guitarists can add the guitar to the track to see how they do. Or guitarists can upload falsetas for specific purposes, and the singers and dancers can chime in on whether it would work for them in performance.

One elephant in the room is that people who know, don't say, right? So any forum will be dominated by beginners/intermediates... but that's okay. After all, the pros more than likely are already up to the gills in flamenco and don't necessarily want to sit around here and talk about nails or Condes all day. (just a theory--there are counter-examples, like at Gearslutz)

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 17:29:42
 
akatune

 

Posts: 188
Joined: Mar. 28 2008
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

I have definitely seen women insulted on this forum. It's never a direct attack against any female who joins a discussion. Rather, its crude comments and penis jokes that seem to arise in threads once a woman joins. You don't have to personally attack a woman to insult her. Just put her in a room with a bunch of men and see what happens when half of them start making dick jokes and ****ty comments.

Ive noticed that some of this vernacular is not present in most threads, but when women are present it manifests.

Also, threads about "Female" guitarist and comments about how hot they are are just juvenile and stupid. Dull. Trite. And downright rude. If I'm with my friends we'll talk about women 'till the sun sets. But not in a public forum. People must be made to feel welcome. I'm no feminist, but when comments offensive to gender are uttered in a public forum that is intended to be inclusive, it casts a dark shadow on our forum.

Although some of this behavior is subtle, how can you blame a woman for not joining the discussion when she notices these things. A woman needs to stick up for herself, but a crowd of men should also behave as gentleman.

And, finally, why are so many of these posts about something utterly different than the topic of this thread?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 17:32:40
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3034
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to cristina

quote:

- The dialalogues/ discussions are too often about „who is right, who hast the ultimative answer and the last word“ - that’s annoying and repugnant and kind of ridiculous. a little kindergarten-like and good example for Freud’s theory about competition ( don’t want to mention the german phrase)


I totally agree with this and I think I've already mentioned it in another topic. Sometimes I know perfectly well that Iam being "attacked" but I always try to keep things well and hopefully steer them back into the right direction.

It has worked well most of the times.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 17:49:56
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 399
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

I am a woman!!!

I haven't posted here in a while because life became kaotic...

However, I do check in regularly and I am still studying flamenco guitar!

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 17:51:35
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Miguel de Maria

still not sure what you want to do ....

I just came from a flamenco dance type forum , actually a dance forum in general with a flamenco section ...

and its girls girls girls judging by the nicknames , and they talk about , dance and flamenco and dresses , like them or hate them ..etc no surprises there .. but if you wanted to do something ,...
Instead of whinging and whining '' oh, we got no girls here they wont come cos we dont know how to talk to them , '' like as if females are aliens from another planet .....
(That is your real tunnel vision , estebanana)

Why not just go over to another forum where there are girls that are interested in flamenco dance , dress , cante , palmas .. the whole thing .. and then invite them over to put up some usable sounds clips made for them ...
by request ...Sevillanas ,..ok his is how it goes and off you go .....


¿You dont agree ?... OK then make your own suggested remedy

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 18:00:32
 
akatune

 

Posts: 188
Joined: Mar. 28 2008
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to El Kiko

Kiko,

You completely missed the point.

Did they make you uncomfortable? Did they make you feel less than them? Did they insult you? Were their threads laced with comments derogatory to men? Did they begin making filthy comments when you joined the thread?

Its not about trying to get more people, like a political party trying to "widen the tent." Its about how people are treated.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 18:03:13
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3034
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to akatune

I would run away from a forum where women say "that dick looks like a penis" or something like that.

It's sooo offensive..

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 18:14:49
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to akatune

no i didnt miss the point at all , its as you said , about how people are treated , not just girls .... but how are you going to change what you dont like ...
by doing it ....yes ...?

not to get more numbers or anything . like a political party , that is definetly missing my point ...

what do you want to do? ,, go back through every bodies posts for the last 5 years and say ...there look what you said ...

you cant change what has happened .. and pointing the finger at anyone wont help .. all you can do is ..
starting from now , change things ...put in place an idea , so that an unpleasant situation cannot happen again ... if you think that is what is needed ...

What I am saying is , here right now in this thread I see a lot of moaning , but not one suggestion to change anything for the future , not one ..

So what will happen will people will moan and whinge and then the thread will naturally die due to lack of interest ... and then in two years time will come back again and someone will say , we already had this thread ...

but what was done about it ? ....that was my point .....

now you see .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 18:20:14
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3034
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to El Kiko

@El Kiko

Para quando um concurso de verão?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 18:23:03
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2811
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

I would run away from a forum where women say "that dick looks like a penis" or something like that. It's sooo offensive../quote]

Actually, the quoted line above is a good example of why women would not want to join or participate in a forum, not because they would be offended; rather, because they would conclude that the members of the forum consisted of a group of guys with the mental level of 12-year old school boys reveling in telling "dirty jokes."

Bill

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And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 18:33:06
 
Mark2

Posts: 1466
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Miguel de Maria

When I was in my early 20's I lived with a lovely girl from Coos Bay Or, who was an avid crab fisherperson. In fact, she had spent some time working in a crab picking factory. We spent many afternoons on the piers at fort point in San Francisco or Pacifica drinking beer and crabbing. I've never seen anyone extract more crab from a crab than her, and in record time as well. Sometimes we'd bring home two small crabs and she would find enough meet in them for a crab feast. I'd imagine she would be able to offer some solid advice on a crab fishing forum :-) One of her many talents.

As to the subject, I'm sure everyone would benefit from more female participation, or more participation in general. I agree with Miguel that people who are directly involved in flamenco likely have a lot of their desire to converse about the subject handled in their day to day affairs. I've become more interested in "internet flamenco" since I stopped being an active member of the local scene. Got to get the fix somewhere........


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

It

I have a feeling if you go to rock guitar forums, or bluegrass guitar forums, or, for that matter, racecar-driving or cabinet-making or crab fishing forums, you will also find few women. There just aren't that many female flamenco guitar players--or, I imagine, crab fisher...women.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2014 18:41:57
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