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Insults on the Foro   You are logged in as Guest
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Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

Insults on the Foro 

Recently we had a thread where we discussed not allowing political comments on the Foro. It was an important thread and discussion, since such things characterize the Foro.

I would like to suggest an analogous thread - not allowing insults on the Foro. I am a member of numerous internet forums, two others on guitar, and others with various focuses. Not one single one of the other forums that I am on will allow or tolerate insults of any kind. They are immediately deleted, and the offender is banned from the forum if he does it again after being warned once.

But insults are a frequent feature on the Foro, albeit the majority of them are committed by a handful of serial insulters. It is a particular shame that these few rotten apples spoil the barrel, because the vast majority of our members are gentlemen, and conduct themselves as such, and do not deserve to be tainted by these others.

As I'm sure our members have observed, I myself have been insulted numerous times - again, always by the same members. Until a very recent post, I have not responded in kind, though I had every right to. I have let it pass, and politely suggested it was uncalled for. I finally had enough of it after an especially egregious insult on that recent thread, and I responded in kind.

And for committing what heinous crime have I been subjected to this verbal abuse. For expressing my opinion on various aspects of flamenco. Since the purpose of the Foro is the expression of one's opinion on various aspects of flamenco, these insults are as gratuitous as it gets.

And let me make it clear - I have no objection whatever to a strong, even very strong statement of disagreement with my opinion. That's what a forum is all about - vigorous discussion and debate. I accord to everyone the right to disagree with me, as I reserve the right to disagree with them. But resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of well stated arguments is antithetical to any rational discourse.

I have frequently been asked by students of mine and audience members for a recommendation of an online source of learning about flamenco. I have always recommended Foro Flamenco and Old School Flamenco Foro. Some of these have been women, who came back to me embarrassed and even appalled at some of the posts they read. Others - men - didn't think much of the tone of some of the posts, and decided not to join the Foro. One man said to me, "It resembles a barroom brawl."

Is this the image we want for the Foro? Do we really want the Foro to be dismissed as uncouth and intolerant? Again, it's a shame, because most of our members are not like that - it's the same handful of offenders who put a blight on the Foro, and it unfairly reflects on the other members who never act like that.

What does it add to a discussion about flamenco? Nothing - except some pointless and unnecessary acrimony. Again, there is a vast difference between stating your case strongly and hurling insults.

I leave it to our members to decide if we want to continue down this path, or finally move into the twenty-first century in accordance with the vast majority of numerous other internet forums.

For my part, I will continue my forty year love affair with all of flamenco, and continue to express my opinion whenever and wherever I think I can make a contribution to the understanding of the many aspects of flamenco.

Ramon

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 17:15:05
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

I don't read the "insults" as insults and I don't remember you being attacked, not saying that it didn't happen.

In the end, I think that if some sort of cleaning takes place this is going to turn into Foro Aburrido and will be of no interest for newcomers.


Seriously, I wouldn't like this to become Delmenco. The foro is already slow these days so...


Lighten up!

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 17:45:15
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

Middel Age and censoring should be matter of the past.
I have seen grown-up forums regulating themselves rather well through context and unwritten rules.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 18:04:03
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

The foro does have moderators and an overall owner that delete posts as they see fit .
the attacks or disagreements are on the writings of the member , not the member itself.
So you can disagree with me , or anyone , and say i have it all wrong or my understanding of anything is wrong . and you can state why , but not not that i am personally an idiot , or i need psychiatric help in some way .

when you say ''Is this the image we want for the Foro? Do we really want the Foro ''.. i am not sure who the 'we' are that you refer to

However , remember you do not have to reply to any posts .. you dont have to read any posts you dont want to .
and you have the option of pressing the 'ignore ' button on any member that you feel is personally annoying to you also you have the right to write a note to any moderator if you feel you are being treated unjustly or are being unduly harassed .

The foro is , now , what the foro is and has arrived at this point after many years of being out there in the public domain..
there are many views on this foro , as many as there are members who come from all parts of the world and have different experiences and views and cultures etc ..

If I were to give major insult, affront or ignominy to you or any other member i would expect a note from a moderator .
Including of this post ....
What is the remedy that you propose?

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 18:19:14
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

Recently we had a thread where we discussed not allowing political comments on the Foro.


The thread to which you refer was a poll, and it concerned the wider issue of personal attacks, offensive behavior, and rudeness. Although whether or not to ban political comments and other non-flamenco topics was a part of the discussion, I think a majority (or at least a large plurality) voted not to ban such topics; rather, to enforce the policy against personal attacks, offensive behavior, and rudeness.

I, myself, favor this position. Politics, economics, science, and all sorts of non-flamenco topics are interesting. We are all adults, and there is no reason why we cannot engage in such discussions without being offensive and mounting personal attacks against fellow Foro members.

The very same thing applies to threads in the General, Lutherie, and other sections. Nevertheless, that does not mean we cannot have some heated discussions. Never assume that because I disagree with your position I am being insulting or rude. Having thin skin is just as bad as mounting personal attacks. I thought this was settled policy. Do we need to discuss the need for a certain decorum in discourse (flamenco or off-topic) all over again?

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 18:34:22
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

These things have already been discussed and, to my understanding, the case is closed. Ramon, may I suggest voting with your feet if you find this environment uncongenial? Delcamp is a good example of a place where heavy-handed rules have created a wasteland of mediocrity and sterile chit-chat--perhaps you could ask him to make a flamenco sub-forum that would better suit your tastes. For better or worse, Simon's forum will always be a little wild.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 19:13:15
 
Leñador

Posts: 5234
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

Miguel's dead on.
I like things with a little edge. That's WHY I like flamenco.....
In the other thread Sr. Martins implied that I was the felatious figure on the back of the guitar. I thought it was a funny. No insult taken, he saw a good opening and went for it.

(now waiting for next Rui comment about "openings" lol)

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 19:28:46
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Leñador

Grand opening?

I hope this one fits, can't think of anything else regarding openings. English isn't my native tongue.

Now you get to do one with tongue.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 19:41:06
 
Bliblablub

 

Posts: 60
Joined: Oct. 9 2013
 

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramon Amira
Some of these have been women, who came back to me embarrassed and even appalled at some of the posts they read. Others - men - didn't think much of the tone of some of the posts, and decided not to join the Foro. One man said to me, "It resembles a barroom brawl."



What a coincidence. I showed your post to a shemale, and it said maybe you should learn a thing or two about flamenco before posting here, so that your lack of knowledge and others rightfully calling you out on the lacking won't make you feel embarrased and act like "insulted". But I doubt you are willing to change, so I find it most amusing that you think others are on the wrong side here.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 20:34:26
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Bliblablub

whoaa



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 20:52:28
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Bliblablub

quote:

I showed your post to a shemale, and it said


Talk about objectifying the opposite sex... maybe not opposite but parallel.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 21:00:59
 
Escribano

Posts: 6146
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Insults on the Foro (in reply to Ramon Amira

Ramon, you can always "Report Abuse" to me. I do not have PM from you regarding this. I read every post, every day.

I don't see anything productive coming out of this other than you drawing a lot of fire and me moderating a whole bunch more, so this thread is locked.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2014 21:17:17
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