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Paco - TV special 1974   You are logged in as Guest
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Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

Paco - TV special 1974 



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 1 2014 20:24:23
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Erik van Goch

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2014 11:19:24
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Guest

quote:

I love the older gentleman's comment around 15:30 (respectfully comparing maestro Sabicas to Paco)


I wouldn’t attach any significance to that: every guitarist has his own mannerisms. You could have balanced a glass of water on Segovia’s head, whereas Bream often looked as if he was having an epileptic fit: but it would be very dodgy to infer from that that Segovia’s technique was better.

(Not that I’m saying Lucía’s technique wasn’t better: just that the logic is suspect.)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2014 18:11:10
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

but it would be very dodgy to infer from that that Segovia’s technique was better.


Right, but after all, it was. And same in PDL Sabicas case.

I like how Paco was messing up with the pulgar in this bulerias (sounded like a short nail or some problem) and he is so mad he just ends it, not even with the right chords, and laughs stands and leaves.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2014 18:34:26
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[Deleted] (in reply to Paul Magnussen

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2014 23:28:31
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Erik van Goch

I like seeing that little bit of human, it's refreshing.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 0:01:25
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Guest

quote:

Not to say Sabicas wasn't incredibly amazing (he certainly was!), but Paco is just from another world.


Yes indeed. But in one area Sabicas still rules: tone. Lucía’s tone was adequate at best, and at times (e.g. some of the Lorca duets with Modrego) it was excruciating.

Sabas never failed in that area (it’s nice to have one area where you’re still king, otherwise you’d feel like Pete Sampras must be feeling).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 1:10:56
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 632
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

Not to say Sabicas wasn't incredibly amazing (he certainly was!), but Paco is just from another world.


Yes indeed. But in one area Sabicas still rules: tone. Lucía’s tone was adequate at best, and at times (e.g. some of the Lorca duets with Modrego) it was excruciating.

Sabas never failed in that area (it’s nice to have one area where you’re still king, otherwise you’d feel like Pete Sampras must be feeling).

Adequate at best? I'm sorry, but unless a particular guitarist is not conforming to basic principles of guitar technique and is getting a bad sound аs a consequence, "tone" is deeply personal and is a product of an individual's touch. I don't think it makes any sense to describe tone with judgmental adjectives when a guitarist is technically proficient -- it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but as the Russian phrase goes, "на вкус и на цвет товарищей нет" (there's no accounting for taste)...

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Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 1:16:42
 
rombsix

Posts: 7849
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

he is so mad he just ends it, not even with the right chords, and laughs stands and leaves.


Indeed that was hilarious.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 4:01:23
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

Lucía’s tone was adequate at best


Edit: Paco's tone was not classical for sure, but very flamenco.
His touch on the guitar, and the sound that he made, were part of what made his playing so very special.
Recording sessions from the sixties when he was very young and probably had no control over the recording or production are not representative of an entire and prolific career.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 10:15:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14960
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

Not to say Sabicas wasn't incredibly amazing (he certainly was!), but Paco is just from another world.


Yes indeed. But in one area Sabicas still rules: tone. Lucía’s tone was adequate at best, and at times (e.g. some of the Lorca duets with Modrego) it was excruciating.

Sabas never failed in that area (it’s nice to have one area where you’re still king, otherwise you’d feel like Pete Sampras must be feeling).


Your opinion. And you are wrong. They both had their own sound for sure, I wouldn't say one better than another. There are things like guitar buzz and recording fidelity to take into account of course, which I do take issue with in some cases. After all, Sabicas stuff is not so easy to play either IMO. Those wicked fast chromatic picados he always did are rough stuff. PDL learned a lot from Sabicas I feel, in addition to N. Ricardo influence.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 13:47:22
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3435
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Ricardo

I don't have the link at the tip of my fingers, but I read an interview with Paco where he said that when he heard Sabicas's "Flamenco Puro" album, he realized there was a different way of playing the guitar.

When Paco was still a teenager, he met Sabicas and Escudero in New York. They urged him to play his own stuff, to compose more. It was advice he seriously took to heart.

I always liked Sabicas's tone. It recorded beautifully, and in person, even in a big room it still had its characteristic fullness, with a cutting edge.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 19:17:27
 
Luka

 

Posts: 16
Joined: Oct. 30 2011
 

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Erik van Goch

In my opinion Paco in his early days was one of the cleanest players ever. It seems to me that lately he didn't care so much for the technique. It was all already in the hands... now it was time for flying, time for the expression, the emotions, adventure into new harmonies, etc,...

After all this "clean sound" mumbo jumbo is more or less a classical guitar thing... so it's really irrelevant...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 19:18:00
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3435
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Luka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luka

After all this "clean sound" mumbo jumbo is more or less a classical guitar thing... so it's really irrelevant...


Yeah, Melchor de Marchena was clearly barking up the wrong tree.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 19:37:34
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Richard Jernigan

richard, i recall reading the quote you mentioned and think i may have read the paco quote in donn pohren's book about flamenco dancers, singers and guitar players.

one thing about paco's technique. back in the late 70's i became a john mclaughlin fan and went and saw the trio in 1981 or 82--i cannot remember the exact year but it was in chicago. john mclaughlin at that time had the speed of a machine gun--ok, maybe a tad slower than his mahavishnu days but a machine gun none the less. i had never heard of paco. i left the concert amazed how this guy named paco kept up with mclaughlin and did not even use a pick.

as for paco and sabicas--one advantage paco had is that sabicas preceeded him and raised the bar which gave paco something to shoot for. i can only imagine the level of technique that will be required to surpass paco.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 19:52:34
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

When Paco was still a teenager, he met Sabicas and Escudero in New York.


There is a wonderful CD I picked up several years ago entitled, "The Fantastic guitars of Sabicas and Escudero." Really fine stuff. Produced by El-Cherry Red Records in the UK.

My guitar instructor and good friend, Paco de Malaga, said that when he was young, every flamenco guitarist wanted to emulate Nino Ricardo. Then along came Sabicas, and the ground shifted. Paco de Lucia is very fortunate to have been influenced by both at different phases in his career. And he had the talent and creativity to forge his own identity as a flamenco guitarist beyond their influence.

Nevertheless, Sabicas remains my all-time favorite. Were I to take one CD album of a flamenco guitarist, and one only, to live on a desert island, it would surely be Sabicas' "Flamenco Puro."

Cheers,

Bill

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And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 20:02:37
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Paco - TV special 1974 (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

There is a wonderful CD I picked up several years ago entitled, "The Fantastic guitars of Sabicas and Escudero."


Not that many years ago: 2011.

Yes it’s utterly brilliant; but, despite the proclamation “FULL STEREO — the ultimate in HI-FI” on the LP, I’ve never been able to tell the difference between the stereo version and the mono. Even Anita Ramos’s castanets are always dead centre.

My personal belief is that they lost the stereo master-tapes and decided to brazen it out.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2014 20:35:42
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