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tele

Posts: 1462
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

Cante in english? 

I know it sounds like an mission impossible, but has anyone ever done cante in english? Like with real flamenco guitar and/or palmas. I would be very curious to hear it if there is any... Maybe I dropped a bomb...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2014 22:08:17
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

I think most working Cantaores use letras that have been established and simply translating them would turn out awful. Plus, and I know some people are going to hate this, English is not a pretty, flowing, poetic language(it's MY opinion I know). Latin based languages just sound nicer, you can make stupid stuff sound poetic. I grew up hearing both and that's how I feel. English, German, and many others, not pretty lol.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2014 22:28:31
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to Leñador

horses for courses ... flamenco in English , not good ... rock n roll in french ,,,, well better in English ...said kiko waiting for the barrage from France.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 0:38:49
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14627
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

There is a tai restaurant I frequent and it's funny how I always hear the piped in music and it sounds like 80's pop american music until I focus on the inaudible words and realize it's not engrish!

So yeah it's a bomb, and huge giant CHEESE bomb. Perhaps you can have profound english lyrics with flamenco guitar accompaniment and compas, but it won't be considered "cante" by anyone on earth.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 6:52:20
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1739
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

I cannot see why not....blues is in every language too.
Maybe not nice sounding always, but why not.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 10:15:38
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1739
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

Here some Fado in Fries,......Fries is a dutch dialect from the Netherlands.



Enjoy!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 10:20:33
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to gerundino63

quote:

Maybe not nice sounding

you answered your own question there

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 10:59:57
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1739
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to El Kiko



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 11:48:41
 
Thomas

Posts: 225
Joined: Oct. 5 2005
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

https://itunes.apple.com/de/album/olala/id267927214

Spanish Actrice Victoria Abril singing in french...
All arrangements and guitarra flamenca by Antonio Rey...
Listen to "Jolie môme" Bulerias...( and perhaps simply ignore those vocals... )

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 12:23:18
 
burnsbyrne

Posts: 44
Joined: Sep. 17 2005
From: NE Ohio, USA

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to gerundino63

I can almost ignore the language but the absence of the guitarra portuguesa makes a big difference.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 12:31:55
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3623
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

quote:

I know it sounds like an mission impossible, but has anyone ever done cante in english? Like with real flamenco guitar and/or palmas. I would be very curious to hear it if there is any... Maybe I dropped a bomb...

quote:

I think most working Cantaores use letras that have been established and simply translating them would turn out awful. Plus, and I know some people are going to hate this, English is not a pretty, flowing, poetic language(it's MY opinion I know). Latin based languages just sound nicer, you can make stupid stuff sound poetic. I grew up hearing both and that's how I feel. English, German, and many others, not pretty lol.

yeah I agree. it wouldn't work by translating existing letras - friend of mine makes hilarious translations of letras - "banderitas gitanas" becomes "gypsy bunting"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 15:37:05
 
tele

Posts: 1462
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to mark indigo

Maybe the gypsy emotions just can't be expressed in english...


however I don't know why should it be impossible to write lyrics(letra) in english and make them sound good being accompanied by flamenco guitar and maybe palmas, but I don't know, has anyone done this sort of "fusion"?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 16:59:46
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

maybe not english so much buut there was an experimental type of thing in japanese

here ..out of curiosity

http://www.arte-y-solera.com/english/program.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2014 20:37:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14627
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Maybe the gypsy emotions just can't be expressed in english...


however I don't know why should it be impossible to write lyrics(letra) in english and make them sound good being accompanied by flamenco guitar and maybe palmas, but I don't know, has anyone done this sort of "fusion"?



It's about taste. Please drop the ridiculous notion. Carry on.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2014 6:53:16
 
tele

Posts: 1462
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

still would be nice to hear how tasteless it is, we have already heard some french and japanese

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2014 12:06:35
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to Ricardo

I think you'd have to start from scratch , translating would be really bad ...however people do sing things like "The girl form Ipanema" in English ,and other songs as well,
although its much better in Portuguese ...no i dont think you will Wow any audience

were not ready for this Tele , your just ahead of your time ....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2014 18:25:09
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

Not sure if I want to hear cante in English. When I came to the States and learned some English, I discovered that some songs that I liked in Russia have silly lyrics. Since I don't speak or understand Spanish I have pretty much no idea what they are singing about. If it's in English I am afraid to be disappointed.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2014 19:36:32
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

A big problem is a lot of it is metaphors and sayings that just don't translate. My girlfriend asked me to translate a couple letras she liked and I realized translating it just didn't work, It ended up me explaining the letra not translating the letra.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2014 19:56:19
 
tele

Posts: 1462
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to Leñador

Indeed my spanish friend said the meanings of letra are hard to understand sometimes even for the spanish people

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2014 20:06:35
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to Leñador

yep one of my fav party songs , that everyone (spanish) knows the words to and can join in dance and sing ......
the sevillanas ....


Me casé con un enano, salerito pa hartarme de reir
Pa jartarme de reir, me casé con un enano, ole salerito y ole
.....etc etc ,, until he falls in the escupidera.

but if you translate it ,, you just get blank stares and ...WTF are you singing about? ... is this a real song ?

Also for my spanish freinds I once translated 'money for nothing ' as i used to play that in a band ....and it happened the same in reverse .....its a song about moving mirowaves, and T.V.'s ??? learning the guitar ...i dont get it ? English songs are just wierd .....

Lets just leave the blues in English and Flamenco in Spanish

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2014 22:04:41
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

anyone seen this?? sounds really good, eh?


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2014 5:43:18
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

or this?


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2014 5:45:55
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

i think its because of the history of andalusia and cante, they are very much linked with the voice of the Moroccans

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2014 5:49:51
 
aloysius

Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

As well as the obvious cultural issues in changing the language, Spanish has just 5 vowel sounds all the same length - no long and short vowels, no diphthongs. This gives the language a very clear rhythm. English has a mess of different vowel sounds of various lengths. I think this may have something to do with what language works with what style of music.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2014 8:07:49
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to aloysius

your right about that aloysius , there has always been a discussion amongst language professors about all the languages falling into 2 groups , one which is based on time and one which is based on syllables ...
English is more time based and has an irregular number of syllables to make the time even , and some getting stretched or shortened ..
and Spanish keep all the syllables even and so the mian time is uneven ....
difficult to write this here as it is a listening thing ...

Anyway , also people will sound better in foreign languages if they go from time based to time based ...or syllable based to syllable based ... the problem occurs more when you swap from one type to another ...
So some English hear the Spanish ..when speaking English , like a machine .with no accents on the sentences as they still try to make all the syllables even ...out of habit ..
However there are other professors that claim this is a false effect and does not really exist ...etc etc ..
iI think there is something in it ...but i dont know if you can get the idea as it is difficult for me to explain in writing ..however ...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2014 9:24:21
 
pjn

 

Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to burnsbyrne

Yeah, doesn't sound much like fado but por Dios what a fabulous voice.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2014 2:48:53
 
pjn

 

Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to Grisha

le le le, little piece of bread, le le le, little piece of bread . . .

little pumpkin, big pumpkin, I am killing this little bug . . .

Grisha, if you learn Spanish you're likely to be disappointed -- but aren't you a bit curious anyway? Especially since you play so incredibly well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2014 2:55:23
 
pjn

 

Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to kudo

What's your point? Are you equating Arabic and Turkish "fusions," which given flamenco's roots and history seem quite natural, with translating flamenco into English?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2014 3:04:11
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

quote:

i think its because of the history of andalusia and cante, they are very much linked with the voice of the Moroccans

What??? What does Morocco have to do with why we don't hear cante in English??? Moroccans hate English more then Spaniards????

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2014 3:50:33
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Cante in english? (in reply to tele

quote:


What??? What does Morocco have to do with why we don't hear cante in English??? Moroccans hate English more then Spaniards????

dont be an idiot ! why convert it to a hate BS ??

all im saying is that theres a strong link between the origins of the cante and the azan and from the richness of the arabic language.
arabic is much richer language than english, not just vocab but also grammatical possibilities. english is hardly comparable in this respect.
its precise , logical , free of many limitations found in that of other languages, ALLOWING IT FOR MUCH WIDER EXPRESSION ! thats the key ! THATS WHY english cant do that !
theres even a track of Vicente amigo " ojos de la alhambra" - Cuidad de las ideas:
the track on the CD Cuidad de las ideas was done with the arabic singer Cheb Khaled: which you all heard I am sure !


here is the live concert version of it with an gypsy flamenco singer (i dont know who he is, someone help me name him? )


now compare these 2 version of the same music ! they both work well, dont they?
do you think if you replace them with the an english singer singing in english the english translation or whatever words that it would go well???? heck no !


if you want to look up vowels and etc, about arabic: start here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language#Vowels

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2014 4:42:38
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