Mano a mano

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Mano a mano

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aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

Mano a mano

Top of the field classical player take on PDL

Aniello could benefit from a guitar with a dryer acoustic perhaps.

quien es mas macho

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2013 22:03:11

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

Aniello could benefit from a guitar with a dryer acoustic perhaps.

quien es mas macho

I agree but I think the place where it was recorded and effects on the recording are affecting the sound in this piece also. I would like to hear him play it on a cypress guitar

very boring and too much silence when compared to paco's playing

Otherwise great

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2013 22:51:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14839
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

It's not the guitar so much as technique. I approve of the idea to interpret that piece in a classical style, but the problem here is mostly timing. I mean it's a free piece but a perfect example where a good sense of timing will influence the phrasing. The dramatic pausing between phrases just doesn't work sorry. It makes the piece very boring sounding, it needs to flow better. THe tremolo needs work technically speaking. Tons of top classical players could do that section justice IMO. He needs to look at filing the nails better or something. When he gets into the fast ligados and such it sounds good. Too bad the end is cut off.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2013 23:19:45

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

No bueno
He took an incredibly dramatic piece and by trying to make it even more dramatic just made it boring. Also, it sounds like a bike with oval tires......

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 1:28:46

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

I think you should have posted this PDL Tarantas, 'cos this is the one the classical guy is trying to play

I have another classical guitarist playing this on cd. I will try to post it, or an excerpt, for comparison.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 12:32:50

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to mark indigo)

Stuff like fuente y caudal is not to be messed with!

Almost a holy piece of music...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 13:45:49

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

Re Mark I.
Thanks for that but the first is pretty close and the timing for all three about the same. The classical tremolo just doesn't get it here and Paco has pauses so don't hold that against Aniello I was curious why he performed it and checking his discography it's included in an album entitled Spain which includes works by Turina and Pujol. Totally appropriate.
Aniello can be wildly idiosyncratic as this performance of Asturias live shows.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 14:13:30

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

I think it was his Cadiz that was totally crazy. Classical guitar can get pretty boring (although not as boring as solo flamenco guitar), so you exaggerating the highs, lows, fasts, and slows is important.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 14:37:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14839
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

Thanks for that but the first is pretty close and the timing for all three about the same.

uh no, not even close.

quote:

Classical guitar can get pretty boring (although not as boring as solo flamenco guitar), so you exaggerating the highs, lows, fasts, and slows is important.

Also, NO.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 14:40:32

el carbonero

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

Ok it's not paco,but who is paco?

We can ear his sound is not flamenco
but dont exagerate this guy have a good technique and play well.
In my computer the tremolo sound good

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 14:47:58

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

Here is another version from a classical guitarist complete with exaggerated pauses.

I liked Anielo's version. He hears it completely differently from me and makes me rethink a few lines.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 14:51:28

el carbonero

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

Grisha is a classic player??

good grisha!
picado and tremolo are better than the other

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 17:18:42

el carbonero

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

hey grisha i am watching a calssic video of you in youtube with a guy call
jeromme mouffe

his guitar have an incredible powerfull sound for a classical.what is it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 17:28:39

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

I think it was his Cadiz that was totally crazy. Classical guitar can get pretty boring (although not as boring as solo flamenco guitar), so you exaggerating the highs, lows, fasts, and slows is important.

What the... how do you have 2.8k posts on this forum.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 19:24:10

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

What the... how do you have 2.8k posts on this forum.

Maybe that's why he finds flamenco guitar solos boring .Heard 2 many of them.

There was a time, long, long ago when pyrotechnics on the guitar were all that was needed to pass as a master. Even Segovia noted this in his partial autobio scofffing at the awe in which Llobets technique was held: all you needed to do was play some fast scales to impress. Tons of top classical players could do that section justice sayth Recordo. So true. What is needed are fresh interpretations which is what Ariello must have realized that at this juncture going before the paying public with Asturius took some nerve. In the 3 versions of PDL's Tarantas all are played with a mastery beyond dispute. I could only fasten on certain
passages which I found beguiling such as the descending slurred bass under the tremolo at about 1:37, advantage Ariello; and the legato ascending runs at about 4:0, advantage Grisha.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 20:43:01

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

Here is another version from a classical guitarist complete with exaggerated pauses.

I remember seeing a youtube post showing you playing it in a guitar shop (trying out/promoting one of the guitars). That recording seems to be vanished (or mislabeled) since i can't tack it. The pauses in the video you included are totally different and way more acceptable as the ones Aniello seems to favor :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 22:55:18

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to aeolus)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 23:05:33

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shroomy726

Why do you keep comparing classical vs flamenco, aelous?

A pig taunts you from the sty not just because he loves the mud, he suspects you will love it too. Like a child in the swimming pool.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 23:15:21

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Oink!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2013 23:21:06

Bliblablub

Posts: 60
Joined: Oct. 9 2013

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

Not even close.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2013 0:05:03

Ricardo

Posts: 14839
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

sayth Recordo.

No worries. I learned my lesson this time, finally. No more feeding the troll.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2013 2:19:22

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ricardo)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2013 2:25:33

Ricardo

Posts: 14839
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

Oh hell, before I drop it. The thing the classical player needs to get the interpretation right is a little of THIS work under the belt:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2013 3:31:46

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

It's all good. I wasn't trying to desecrate the sacred art of flamenco. Just note something that is rare: a classical player playing a flamenco piece. It is interesting that Grisha was the only respondent that wasn't horrified at the temerity of it and even had found something of use. Figures.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2013 10:03:59

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

Just note something that is rare: a classical player playing a flamenco piece.

Honestly not the case. Most classical players have a little trick bag of flamenco,pop, blues and whatnot for which they clearly have genuine affection.

Any hostility tends to be caused entirely by concerns over market share, audience loyalty and good old fashioned insecurity.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2013 10:36:46

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I think the bottom line is that we should respect alot these two guitarists who can play this piece as it's very difficult. Of course not even close to the original when it comes to feeling and technique but I don't think there are anyone who can get close to paco's way of playing it.

Both of these matters are meant to be compliments

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2013 11:00:49

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

here is the other classical guitarist I have heard play fuente y caudal

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2013 9:00:24

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to mark indigo)

Well I enjoyed that and I enjoyed Grisha and of course I enjoyed Paco. And the other guy is always pushing the envelope and it was an interesting listen.

I loved the Naxos guitar editions. Norbert Kraft is a great player and he put out a lot of solid classical guitar CDs with emerging players. And not just the annual new guy plays the Recuerdos stuff that the main stream labels swamped music store shelves with.

Never saw the Martinez before but he is making a clear statement to any classical guitar afficianados. ie 'Classic' guitar is whatever is played on guitar and lasts and that Paco is a composer as worthy as any other. Anyway I like the style on the recording placing Paco stylistically with Moreno Torroba and Turina is fine by me. Sure this isn't all that there is to Paco but he is a diverse artist.

It is good that the facile prejudices of the Segovia generation seem to be fading. So many things do in the light of day.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2013 10:51:50

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Mano a mano (in reply to aeolus)

Born: 1975 - Granda, Spain

The Spanish guitarist, David Martínez began his musical studies at seven years of age with his father, while singing as soloist of the Granada Conservatory Choir. He later studied with his uncle, professor Carmelo Martínez, graduating in 1993 from the Superior Conservatory of Granada with the silver medal of the Young Interpreters of the Musical Youth of Granada. He was then accepted to the class of the Mozarteum of Salzburg, Austria, with Joaquín Clerch and Eliot Fisk as professors. In 1998, he was selected to be part of the hommage to Andrés Segovia in Granada, and at the Hochschule für Musik in Munich in Germany. He has taken master-classes with David Russell, Hugo Geller, Jose Tomas, Ivan Rijos and Anthony Spiri in Ancient Music.

The tab I found shows a 5 note tremolo!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2013 11:01:23