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Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to guitarbuddha

You guys need to get a life. Anders doesn't get along with my presence here on the foro so I thought that we agreed to abstain from communicating for the duration of these threads.

It's not out of line to disagree with another builder but to be of the opinion that if we do disagree, then do it with Netiquette.

I certainly don't mind arguing guitar making points but I try not to assassinate the character of the one with whom I argue. In other words, Anders has as much right to post his thoughts on this forum as anyone......all I ask is that he do it with style.

The style with which he builds excellent guitars.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 11:53:19
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana

Stephen, there are two things I hate to do, and that is making necks and bridges, so I'm farming them out to Manuel so that I can save time for the other parts of the guitar that I truly like to build.

I've built as many as 6 necks at a time but at this stage of the game I feel that I should keep the wood in raw form so I don't waste it if I get sick and don't build for awhile, or decide to change to another head-stock style, etc.

But I admire the enthusiasm of you younger builders who are so full of energy and chutzpah. Your dreams are more easily put into practice, even when you are making corrections in your path of workmanship. I wish you well.
quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

Stephen, let me know how your latest build is going. What style are you working on? Are you concentrating on a particular style as your signature model?


I'm working on necks right now. I'm building them five at a time. I hope that is not too mass production for the purists..

When I am not ranting, I'm researching and sourcing materials on the internet. Japan is a big first world country, but it is an island chain and the supply line works much differently here than in the US or Europe. I have to plan further in advance to have material delivered on time. I have to be more careful about how much and what I order because send backs are expensive, time consuming and difficult. I've come to appreciate the problems of building that Europeans and Americans don't have vis vis the supply chain and perhaps that got me thinking about how difficult it is to begin an edition of guitars made in more than one place.

It also made me think a lot about how much fuel is used to mover materials and finished guitars around the world. Not that from where I stand they have to move any farther, but you just become hyper aware of how supply lines operate if you live here rather than California, where most everything is easy to acquire.

So I'm looking at necks sourcing carbon fiber for the necks by establishing direct contacts with the primary suppliers in the US. I'm going with my old company Aero Space Composites in Pleasanton CA. I've been buying supplies for them since the mid 1990's. So much of my work is not even in the shop, it's administrative and buyer oriented, and I'm just one guy, not a factory. Yuko is also working to translate my website into Japanese and I stand by to answer questions and explain things like the difference between 'blancas' and 'negras'.


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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 12:11:29
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear
I've built as many as 6 necks at a time but at this stage of the game I feel that I should keep the wood in raw form so I don't waste it if I get sick and don't build for awhile, or decide to change to another head-stock style, etc.

What does age have to do with being efficient? We're building 6 necks right now and have always done it this way. The six tops are all to thickness, some of the rosettes are inlayed, some of the sides are bent and several backs are glued. I'm approaching 72 and only work a few hours a day so I try to get as much work done as possible while I'm in the shop. After this many years there is very little time spent thinking since all the numbers are in my head and the assembly process is a little like breathing. Most of the time I'm working I have the latest piece of music I'm learning playing in my mind.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 14:23:44
 
tri7/5

 

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

This fórum is 99% dead for me. I will not leave it now. I will continue to be a foro member at least for a while. But maybe I should try to stay away from most of the discussions here. And maybe I should try to stay away from some of the posters as well.


You say this about every time you post and its getting old. No need to constantly disparage this place.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 15:14:05
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

What does age have to do with being efficient?


I envy your performance, Sir.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 15:20:33
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

Most of the time I'm working I have the latest piece of music I'm learning playing in my mind.


I find it interesting what state of mind one is in while at a work piece.
To me it is always kind of trance ( which, as I assume, your looping of etude might equal to as well).

And the quality of contemplation differs, depending on the kind of work.
Working on something like a sculpture or a drawing to me definitly is different than any working on a dental piece under enormous stress used to be.

I do admire the contemplation of a joiner or better even a guitar maker, specially when his shop be a friendly and bright one with all the odor of freshly cut wood and maybe some slow music in the background.
But the leisure /or whatever introverted getaway in my case also presents a risk to the work piece. And when the accident happens it ends with a horror of having cut a wrong corner or similar.

As contemplating dental technician I would typically forget to isolate something so that everything would end up stuck together while deadline was marching on so mercilessly in the same time.
There it would had been better to stay all present, but I just can´t but slip away when working with my hands. More so when it is creative work.

For what it´s worth.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 15:51:34
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
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RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

error

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 15:53:40
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to tri7/5

quote:




quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

This fórum is 99% dead for me. I will not leave it now. I will continue to be a foro member at least for a while. But maybe I should try to stay away from most of the discussions here. And maybe I should try to stay away from some of the posters as well.


You say this about every time you post and its getting old. No need to constantly disparage this place.


Thanks for your kind words

I took a break for 5 month from the foro and I just came back, so I doubt that my postings can have such a negative impact for you.
If it has, maybe I´m not your problem and maybe its time that you take a chat with yourself.
Or maybe you would prefer me to take a longer break?

And besides you didnt read what you quoted yourself. I stated that maybe I should stop doing what you dislike, but you had to keep it going or what? Maybe you are the one diparaging right now?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 16:04:11
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to jshelton5040

John,
I know this is off the topic of fart jokes and luthier wars, but what are you working on now? I recently inherited a conservatory grand and have just got to the point of playing some lovely Bach minuets (even working on the overplayed G major one this morning). In my daughter's Suzuki book, I see Mozart and Beethoven coming up in the next few pieces. What a joy!

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 16:08:33
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

John,
fart jokes and luthier wars,




sorry i can't resist

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 16:24:37
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Arash

It's understandable that some of us wind a tortuous way toward self expression but some things are invalid when being pushed toward the twilight zone of never ending slime. But then, not all of us are mature enough to grasp the meaning of playing with a straight deck ;-)

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 18:15:44
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

But then, not all of us are mature enough to grasp the meaning of playing with a straight deck ;-)


For sure, warped necks suck.


...oh...


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 18:33:37
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to n85ae

As I said last night.

quote:

It's really a shame the Foro has degenerated a lot over the past year or two,
because of this garbage, and if you look around you realize there are a bunch of
people who used to be here who are no longer around. Good players, and Luthiers
alike are gone, and why?

Clearly there's room in the world for humor, but come on guys, really - This is humor?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 18:35:24
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

Re.: "Inappropiate Farting"

Dear Sirs,

i acknowledge the receipt of your messages dated Oct. 17 2013 and Oct. 16 2013 and thank you for bringing this matter to my attention.

I would like to offer my most profound apologies for posting fart videos in this highly professional, interesting and charitable thread (specially the last few pages) and any inconvenience these type of videos has caused you and will do my utmost to settle the matter.

You can rest assured that this will not happen again.

I sincerely hope to establish a long-term relation with all of you and your esteemed guitar companies and I appreciate your anticipated co-operation.

Yours faithfully,

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 19:02:33
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

Yeah right, better to try the John Cleese apology from "A Fish called Wanda".
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 19:11:16
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to n85ae

quote:

ORIGINAL: n85ae

Yeah right, better to try the John Cleese apology from "A Fish called Wanda".


Not to be confused with his lecture "how to irritate people"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 19:25:32
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

It's understandable that some of us wind a tortuous way toward self expression



but some things are invalid when being pushed toward the twilight zone of never ending slime.



But then, not all of us are mature enough to grasp the meaning of playing with a straight deck ;-)





The path to genuine self expression challenges us all.


WTF ??


Pomposity is no gaurantee of integrity.







Feel free to send me shoddy prose and I will polish it...... where possible.

Reasonable rates apply.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 22:53:20
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

John,
I know this is off the topic of fart jokes and luthier wars, but what are you working on now? I recently inherited a conservatory grand and have just got to the point of playing some lovely Bach minuets (even working on the overplayed G major one this morning). In my daughter's Suzuki book, I see Mozart and Beethoven coming up in the next few pieces. What a joy!

Congratulations on your new piano!

There are no easy Bach pieces. In my experience they range from challenging to totally beyond reach. Although some of those pieces from the Anna Magdalena notebook are supposed to have been written by someone else.

I'm working on "the little shepherd" and "the maid with the flaxen hair" from the "children's corner" by Debussy, two Bach preludes, two Haydn sonatas (relatively early ones so they're not horribly difficult), two Chopin waltzes (A flat and D major) and a Scarlatti sonata. After over 4 years of daily practice I'm sadly still a rank beginner but so far playing piano has been a blast.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 23:20:39
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to jshelton5040

I am not convinced by the Tocatta and Fugue in D minor as a work by Bach.

Interestingly Bach had in his household some major composers. Carl Philip Emmanuel and Wilhelm Friedemann.

Their styles are very different from the father.

It is reasonable to expect that in the light student pieces Bach jotted down for his second wife he may have selected material for didactic purposes which may not have been entirely of his own creation. I would be surprised however if he signed them.

A Bach score is such a beautiful thing. So absolutely superior to a factory typeset edition. A real picture of his creative intent. Lines which seem abstruse in a modern edition are evoked so much more poignantly in his hand.

It is great to hear that you are enjoying your piano JS.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2013 23:33:29
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:


I'm working on "the little shepherd" and "the maid with the flaxen hair" from the "children's corner" by Debussy, two Bach preludes, two Haydn sonatas (relatively early ones so they're not horribly difficult), two Chopin waltzes (A flat and D major) and a Scarlatti sonata. After over 4 years of daily practice I'm sadly still a rank beginner but so far playing piano has been a blast.


That is pretty much what I have been listening to the last week while working in the shop. The Scarlatti on guitar, but the rest of it on piano. You have great discipline to begin a new instrument.

I've been carving away at the Bach cello suites. I've been working on the 1st and 2nd one seriously and flirting with the preludes of 4 and 5. Number 6 is out of reach for me at the moment.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 0:33:31
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to jshelton5040

Oops, I thought that minuet was by Bach in G major is not by Bach, eh!? Some Christiat Petzold? I guess that accounts for its predictability. At least my previous project, "BWV Anh. 116", another Minuet in G, seems to be by Bach.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 5:18:05
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to guitarbuddha

quote:

I am not convinced by the Tocatta and Fugue in D minor as a work by Bach.


I am. When I was in high school the band teacher did a special class for music history. The T& Fugue in D minor I learned then was composed so Bach would have a piece to try out new organs with and run through all the stops. That's why it has that big gnarly chord in the beginning.

There is a professor in Australia who claims the Bach suites for cello were written by Anna Magdalena. I entertained the idea for a few weeks and thought about it. That was about five years ago. Then I stared playing cello again and really looked at the score and did a lot of listening and decided it was a bad theory.

Perhaps she might have contributed a dance movement here and there, but the relationship between chordal movement and melodic movement through the chords is nothing short of brilliant. The fugue in the 5th prelude suite is genius, as is the majority of the material.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 6:15:16
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

The fugue in the 5th prelude suite is genius, as is the majority of the material.


You mean his transcription of his lute suite ?

My problem with the tocatta is simple, it doesn't sound like Bach. I don't think I could entertain the idea that any of the Cello suites were by another for even a few seconds. I love the Sarabandes most of all and the Cmajor prelude sounds terrific in g on the guitar.

Interestingly Weiss, for whom the luite suites were probably intended, often sounds very like Bach. There are even short sections where you might think it is the man himself. But Weiss always asserts himself with an oddball harmonic move.


D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 10:18:25
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

The prelude of the 5th cello suite has a fugal section after about 25 measures of free wheeling it through c minor scale chord arggegios. Then it breaks into a great little fugue which is specific to that suite. The lute suite is totally different. The thing that is tricky to to make one line sound like a a multi voiced fugue. Your imagination fills in the empty parts when you hear a back an forth between bass and melody and inner voice and outer voice. His brilliance is that he weaves four lines in your head by giving you one line to play. He does that all over the violin partitas as well.

Still not following you on how the toccata and fugue in D minor does not sound like Bach. It sure as hell does not sound like Buxtehude. Even thought Bach is known characteristically for tightly woven counter point that references the tonic center, he can also take you way outside the harmonic norms of his times. There are sections of Bach keyboards pieces that are quite dissonant, he understood that too.

And the other thing to remember about Bach is that he was a kick booty improvisor, he could do tricks like construct fugues on a five or six note theme a challenger would give him and create a piece on the spot. The Toccata is like a calling in the spirit in a blues pice where the guitar player plays some outside bendy grace notes in free time and then launches into a groove with a beat.

When Bach composed that toccata was just sitting at an organ thinking he was Lightnin' Hopkins starting a blues Then he sat on that big fat nasty D minor chord for along time an remembered he lived in the 17th century.

Then guy who built the organ then looked up at him from where he sat in the pews and and said: "Dude that sounds bitchen, do it again."

Sorry Tom to have to explain Bach in your thread. Hope you don't mind the diversion talking about classical music.

Can I stop holding in this fart now?

Speaking of farts, I think Spaniards and Gypsies are fart 'o' phobes. Anything below the belt is nasty and forbidden, it's bad manners to fart and bad manners to talk about farting. I get that, but I don't really care. I'm not Spanish. I'm not one of those flamenco enthusiasts that strive vainly to try to be Spanish and put on Spanish mannerisms. I'm a big ugly American who loves flamenco, but also farts and plays the cello. And I also burp. In Japan it's cool to Burp at the table. It means you like the food. So I fit in better here than trying to be a wanna-be Spaniard like so many flamencos. I think Spaniards secretly detest people trying to be Spanish, but since they are polite and strive never to fart, they are mute on the subject and suffer non farting Spanish posers.

One of my best friends is a Spanish molecular biologist and he talks about farts all the time. He lived in the US for 18 years so perhaps some of our bad American manners rubbed of on him. However he used to say to me, "Condi, I hate it when Americans try to be Spanish, what are those fart knockers thinking?" He calls me Condi after Condoleeza Rice because she is so uptight and he thinks I am uptight so he named me Condi. He makes up nick names for people and when he does not like them he uses the word fart in the nick name. He made up this great word in Spanglish 'Fartknockero' A fartknocker.

I really hate smoking, I can't stand being around smokers. It's one of the major things wrong, in my opinion, with flamenco. Besides killing off Moraito, which totally sucked, smoking stinks more than farts. When Spaniards ask me if I mind if they smoke, I say hey no problem, mind if I fart?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 11:42:38
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

So which parts don't sound like Bach? It sounds eegzaclty like Bach taking an organ for a test drive.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 11:46:29
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana

I find your tone, insight and rhetorical skills precisely as enjoyable as usual.

Perhaps that is why I don't mind the fart jokes.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 11:56:06
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

* bows deeply *

Heading for bed. Good day gentlemen.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 12:01:21
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana



Sorry Tom to have to explain Bach in your thread. Hope you don't mind the diversion talking about classical music.

Can I stop holding in this fart now?




You think that was holding it in ?

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 12:02:04
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana

Pedro Bacan is what I like to call the Bach of the flamenco guitar........



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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 12:09:35
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear

Enjoying that thoroughly Tom.

Some reading material for Estabanana.

http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2005/11/05/toccata-and-fugue-in-d-minornot-bach/

It is interesting to note that Vivaldi was rediscovered as a result of some scholars mistaking Bach's arrangement of Vivaldi's violin concerto's for Bach originals. This lead to them reevalutating and elevating the importance of Vivaldi rather than admit they had cloth ears.

And please feel free to compare the Cello with the Lute original, it is clear that you haven't. Your can search for discussions on provenance online after.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2013 12:15:30
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