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RE: "Which guitar do I play today???"
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jeff_hatcher
Posts: 46
Joined: Aug. 26 2012
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 RE: "Which guitar do I play tod... (in reply to britguy)
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I don't dispute Aeoulus' contention that classical guitarists emphasize dynamics, tonality, and inflection to a more refined degree than flamenco guitarists. I think the objective of a classical guitarist is to bring out as much character and emotion out of a piece as possible, which is why the same piece played by different artists can still sound unique with each performance.
Flamenco guitar comes from a different tradition, a tradition based around dance, song, and storytelling. Flamenco guitarist don't try to play the same exact piece over and over as written, but instead share a common vocabulary of compases and falsetas that can be mixed and matched and personalized as desired. The rhythm and pulse of a piece seems (to me) to receive more emphasis. There is a tendency for guitarist to gravitate towards faster, flashier, even "over the top" interpretations... but I feel this contributes towards the passion and intensity of flamenco, which is what makes it interesting to me.
From what I have been listening to, Flamenco guitarists do not disregard dynamics, inflection, and tonality... I hear it all of the time. I just don't think they are as obsessive about it.
I don't see how inculcating a musical "purist" philosophy in any way enhances an enjoyment of music. Each style brings something different to the table. Elevating one form whilst denigrating another seems to be a waste of time, and prevents you from appreciating something for what it is, rather than what you think it should be.
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Date Apr. 21 2013 16:22:45
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: "Which guitar do I play tod... (in reply to britguy)
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My regards to those who can discuss the topic without personal insult. My experience with CG is that the interpreter's job is almost completely to add life and nuance to a lifeless blueprint. And that blueprint is harmonically and melodically, though usually not rhythmically, far, far more complicated than a flamenco composition.
Even something like a Sor study has 3 voices, all of which are supposed to be clearly heard and understood by the listener. The famous Sor-Segovia, Op6No8 is such a piece. My sheet music literally has pencil marks for interpretation and direction on every measure. Certain notes are accented so that the listener is made aware a new melody is starting. A common "move" is that the treble gets louder while the bass simultaneouly gets more quiet. Every dominant chord is played louder than its resolution. In the penultimate section there is a chain is suspension/resolutions where a chord resolves to another which resolves to another. When I say "chord", it is probably more true to realize you are playing three melodies at the same time, which all must sing and act like melodies, which often come together in chord shapes. And this is a 39 mm. study based on a simple three note theme.
As beautiful as Sabicas and Paco's compositions are, surely one can't make the same claim. The amount of information in a handful of measures of a Bach fugue, all of which is meant to be clearly articulated, might be the equivalent of an entire simple flamenco composition such as Panaderos Flamencos. And all CGers play Bach.
It would seem difficult to argue that the flamenco players can add as much nuance to homophonic lines as a CGer _must_ to complex, polyphonic work. Unless the argument is the extra rhythmic options take up the slack.
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Date Apr. 21 2013 17:16:46
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3431
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: "Which guitar do I play tod... (in reply to aeolus)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: aeolus
The great thing about 80 is you've beaten the odds and anything more is gravy. The down side is your hearing is crap. I remember at 17 hearing a Segovia recording with probably more than he could hear at his age and being left in a trance. That's the worst of it. I remember reading about Pete Townsend and his campaign to lower the volume at rock concerts because he had young children and his hearing was so poor he couldn't understand their high pitched voices. It doesn't take long for one's hearing to fall to 8000 cycles.
By now the following is practically OT, but I will pick up on it all the same. Both my brother, a distingushed physician, and my audiologist, a Fellow of [whatever the American sciety of audiologists is] tell me that hearing loss with age in modern society is not senility, but rather accumulated noise damage. An 80 year old man who has lived all his life in the Amazon rain forest is likely to have hearing as acute as a 16 year old American girl. Interesting, but not much help to a 75 year old like me who had too many motorcycles, guns and airplanes in his youth.
What is helpful is modern hearing aid technology. Seven or eight years ago it got harder for me to follow conversations in the noisy cafeteria which was the only place to eat at the remote military base where I lived in the Central Pacific. While on vacation back in Austin I consulted an audiologist.
A few years previously I had an interesting conversation in Bali, with an American. He said he was a truck driver back in the USA, and made good money. But surprisingly, he also said he was a member of the family who were the primary owners of the Beltone hearing aid company. He wanted nothing to do with the business because it was so fraudulent. He wasn't interested in going into detail.
So when it came time to consult an audiologist, I mulled over how to select one, since I had no friends in a position to advise me. I looked over the listings and selected the one who I concuded, from my knowledge of Austin, was paying the highest rent for their office. It has proven to be a good, though expensive choice.
She is a Fellow of [whatever]. Her husband is an engineer. At the time, he was an active participant who was available during office hours, so we could talk details of technology. She mentioned clients who were retired faculty members of the Unoversity of Texas music faculty. I called up the faculty people, who gave her a warm recommendation.
Long story short, it has been a good deal for me, though as I said, expensive.
Several years ago I began to develop numbness in my left pinky due to a pinched nerve in the neck from an old motorcycle wreck. I ended up not playing. I believed the reason was the numb pinky.
A couple of months ago I decided, since I am now retired and have plenty of time, to find out what I could do with the sensation left in the pinky. I made a pleasant discovery. The problem with my playing was, in large part more due to hearing loss than to the bad finger. To get enough sound from the guitar I was having to thrash too hard. The resulting excess tension in both hands was messing things up. With the new hearing aids I can once again hear nuances, and I am learning to eliminate the excess tension. The finger is not what it once was, but it is still improving. I'll see where it goes. But once again the sound of the guitar itself is a thing of beauty for me.
The frequency response of the hearing aids can be tweaked quite considerably. At the moment they are just a little too bright. This week I have an appointment, free of charge, to bring in my guitar and work on the tweaking. The retired music faculty members assure me that the audiologist will work with me until I am satisfied.
I could buy a very nice guitar for what I've paid for hearing aids. My audiologist has always been happy to work with me to get things tuned up just right. It's money well spent, as far as I'm concerned. (And I'm quite happy with the guitars I've already got.)
I'm pretty sure you can get an excellent result for cosiderably less money.
RNJ
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Date Apr. 21 2013 18:32:13
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Having a musical ear is something else. Obviously. 
