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RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs?   You are logged in as Guest
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Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 635
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Grisha) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

Ricardo,

How about visiting a museum for inspiration? Viewing some great paintings and sculptures? How about reading a nice classic book? Something that leaves an impression? Or listening to a different musical style? Even watching a good movie with powerful acting? Maybe climbing a mountain? Listening to the wind? Or feeling the salty breeze on your face on a warm sunny day at the beach? Maybe some trees covered with snow?

No, has to be instant nowadays. Powerful and mindless. Without leaving the house.


What's interesting is that all of those experiences can stimulate the brain in very similar ways to drugs (albeit not quite as radically, but perhaps much more profoundly and certainly without all the nasty associated side effects). It's a shame that flamenco and many other musical fields appear to be inextricably linked to a rampant drug culture. :(

_____________________________

Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 17:34:40
 
Grisha

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 17:54:36
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 635
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Grisha) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

On any clear day we are given powerful inspiration sources: sunrise and sunset. Watching the light and colors shift, listening to the birds chirp, feeling the nature go to sleep or awaken. Not enough inspiration for you?

Right on! Most people aren't aware of those things on a sufficient level to fully grasp how inspirational they can be, though, which is one reason why they resort to drugs. :(

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Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 17:57:16
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15160
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Grisha) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

On any clear day we are given powerful inspiration sources: sunrise and sunset. Watching the light and colors shift, listening to the birds chirp, feeling the nature go to sleep or awaken. Not enough inspiration for you?


Sure. But some drugs are part of nature too. It would be silly to pretend they DON"T inspire at all, when they certainly do for some people. Likewise, not every sunset is gonna do it for everybody ALL THE TIME. Some things OF COURSE are not harmful habits at all and can be done all the time without ill effect or dullness from overuse as inspiration source. My point is not to advocate any one thing, ESPECIALLy if they are addictive. Your suggestions also work and are powerful. I for one get lots of inspiration from youtube vids. But for sure not the most healthy thing in the world to just sit there staring at a computer screen for hours and hours, regardless of how uplifted i might feel.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:15:37
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 635
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

On any clear day we are given powerful inspiration sources: sunrise and sunset. Watching the light and colors shift, listening to the birds chirp, feeling the nature go to sleep or awaken. Not enough inspiration for you?


Sure. But some drugs are part of nature too. It would be silly to pretend they DON"T inspire at all, when they certainly do for some people. Likewise, not every sunset is gonna do it for everybody ALL THE TIME. Some things OF COURSE are not harmful habits at all and can be done all the time without ill effect or dullness from overuse as inspiration source. My point is not to advocate any one thing, ESPECIALLy if they are addictive. Your suggestions also work and are powerful. I for one get lots of inspiration from youtube vids. But for sure not the most healthy thing in the world to just sit there staring at a computer screen for hours and hours, regardless of how uplifted i might feel.


As someone who is going into psychiatry, I am dubious of claims that drugs are a source of inspiration. Perhaps my opinion is biased since I have never dabbled in drugs, but if someone must rely on a chemical agent that hit dopamine or disrupt NMDA receptors to become creatively inspired, then that suggests a sort of creative bankruptcy IMO. I know that there are many stories of musicians who used drugs and later composed great pieces. But for some reason I think they would have been able to do so anyway if they were truly great musicians and artists. I agree with you that it's not a good idea to advocate any one type of inspiration source, but I don't drugs are ever necessary.

_____________________________

Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:20:51
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Ricardo) 
In all matters musical i'd defer to you, but on this I must disagree

All of the above died of smoking related cancers, I think Morente died of cancer of the esophagus and the rest died of lung cancer.

Lung cancer seems like an epidemic in flamenco-world, its a lot more than the above mentioned names I see it mentioned all the time. I think Paco smokes too, or used too

It seems strange becaus so little of the Latins I know here smoke..drink like fish, yes, but smoke..no way...must be very different in Spain
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:22:07
 
Grisha

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:23:56
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 635
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to mark74) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

In all matters musical i'd defer to you, but on this I must disagree

All of the above died of smoking related cancers, I think Morente died of cancer of the esophagus and the rest died of lung cancer.

Lung cancer seems like an epidemic in flamenco-world, its a lot more than the above mentioned names I see it mentioned all the time. I think Paco smokes too, or used too

It seems strange becaus so little of the Latins I know here smoke..drink like fish, yes, but smoke..no way...must be very different in Spain

Actually, Morente used cocaine incredibly frequently according to Humberto. In fact, Humberto told me that he believes this use was related to a change in personality where Morente became more socially withdrawn and cold, and consequently severed many of his old friendships.

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Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:24:02
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15160
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to mark74) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

In all matters musical i'd defer to you, but on this I must disagree

All of the above died of smoking related cancers, I think Morente died of cancer of the esophagus and the rest died of lung cancer.

Lung cancer seems like an epidemic in flamenco-world, its a lot more than the above mentioned names I see it mentioned all the time. I think Paco smokes too, or used too

It seems strange becaus so little of the Latins I know here smoke..drink like fish, yes, but smoke..no way...must be very different in Spain


And you know for a fact none of them did tons of cocaine? no you don't. Most smoker get health problems for sure...with age. The young guys living intensely is something else.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:25:48
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
I think a lot of musicians get into drugs, because they play in party atmospheres where there is a lot of substance abuse..I'm sure thats how a lot of flamencos get into it

RibNibbler started this ridiculous tangent about drugs and shaman and inspiration, because I think he watched The Doors movie too many times
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:26:11
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Ricardo) 
I dont know anything about that..I also don't know of a link between cocaine and lung cancer unless you smoke it
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:27:19
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
I'm not doubting that...Ricardo actually knows some of these people..the closest I've been to Spain is the tapas bar near Wrigley Field..

I'm just disputing the connection between cocaine and cancer and the idea that smoking is "innocent"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:29:58
 
chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
In This Thread:
A bunch of straight-edges who never got tipsy from a glass of wine saying drugs are a categorically bad.

Kind of like someone who never ate pork saying bacon isn't delicious.

ITT #2:
People who 'partied' on hallucinogens wonder why they couldn't reach a higher state of consciousness.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:34:02
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 635
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to chester) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: chester

In This Thread:
A bunch of straight-edges who never got tipsy from a glass of wine saying drugs are a categorically bad.

Kind of like someone who never ate pork saying bacon isn't delicious.

ITT #2:
People who 'partied' on hallucinogens wonder why they couldn't reach a higher state of consciousness.

I am hesitant to use the phrase "categorically bad" (although my opinion isn't terribly far from that), but I was specifically referring to the use of drugs in bringing about musical inspiration. I believe that the negative side effects of drug use far outweigh the potential (musical) benefits, which may actually be a type of psychological deception whereby one fools him/herself into thinking that they are more inspired because that is the expected effect.

If the general argument is "hey, whatever gets the job done", then I guess I have nothing to counter that with, except for the fact that the supposed inspiration will come at a pretty big cost.

_____________________________

Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:38:36
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to mark74) 
Guys, you want to know what the best drug there is for inspiration? Too bad I cannot do it with the same level of intensity anymore. Do some intense cycling for a few hours and take a steep uphill (with everything you have ) to finish it off. When you are done, I can assure you that for the rest of the day you will feel better than any drug can make you feel. (Not to mention the health benefits.)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:40:29
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15160
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to mark74) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

I dont know anything about that..I also don't know of a link between cocaine and lung cancer unless you smoke it



I only know what I have seen in people. As I said it's taboo so many don't admit they do pounds of coke, and getting sick it's easy to blame on smoking or drinking. Immune system compromise I personally think is the main issue that allows bad stuff to happen to the body, coupled with nasty effects of emotional depression on the body. Hard to study if folks don't admit to how much they use it.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/health/doctor/lhdoc216.htm

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:42:19
 
Grisha

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 18:55:10
 
lukeofgod

Posts: 113
Joined: Jan. 11 2012
From: Bay Area- CA

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
El nino miguel was mentioned earlier.... What actually happened to him. I saw one video playing his amazing solea, then a more recent video of him looking like a complete mess with with almost no precision in his technique??
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 19:12:36
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
P a b l o

E s c o b a r

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 19:23:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15160
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Grisha) 
Estimulantes.



_____________________________

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 19:27:52
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to lukeofgod) 
I'm curious about this myself..I know it was said he had a heroin addiction, but I don't know if it is true...something happened though, thats for sure
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 19:37:52
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1789
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Grisha) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

On any clear day we are given powerful inspiration sources: sunrise and sunset. Watching the light and colors shift, listening to the birds chirp, feeling the nature go to sleep or awaken. Not enough inspiration for you?


The first language i ever learned was music and as soon as i could walk nature became my second lifetime friend and inspiration. For long i believed i started playing the guitar because my father was a professional guitar player, but i was told the real reason was i wanted to become a crew member of Jaques Cousteau's Calypso and for some reason believed playing the guitar was one of the corresponding job requirements (apparently as a child i saw a guitar once in one of his television specials). The few times in my life i really gave music my soul i also experienced a growing attraction to the sea/oceans, an attraction i share with both Paco de Lucia and Astor Piazzolla. Many great composers were/are inspired by nature.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 19:47:04
 
Don Dionisio

 

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to lukeofgod) 
There is a recent documentary about Niño Miguel. From what I understand
he has significant mental illness (schizophrenia, I believe); although, several flamencos
have pitched in to help him get treatment as well as help him get back to performing
on stage. The film shows him in Huelva basically living on the streets looking quite
haggard for his age. I believe he is doing better now but the disease definitely has
affected him.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 20:35:16
 
lukeofgod

Posts: 113
Joined: Jan. 11 2012
From: Bay Area- CA

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
That's unfortunate. Hopefully it's subtitled in english
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 20:41:44
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Estimulantes.

Interesting.
El mataperro ahaha!!
Also interesting what the guy said about the wisky' fashion, and how it's related with money and high class society...

Once I saw Luis el Zambo in a gig, he drank in a little bottle of water. At one point I zoomed in on him and spotted that the 'water' wasn't translucide .

Also in another show, I saw Morao with Poveda, Grillo and others where they were all sitting around a table, pretending that they were in a bar or something...damn, Morao emptied at least 3 glass of fino like if it was water from the moment when he sat down until he strummed the first chord! (and it wasn't that long ).
Not to mention that of course they probably empty a couple of bottle before enter the scene.

flamenco way of life

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 21:01:29
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
quote:

That's unfortunate. Hopefully it's subtitled in english


I have that doc, it doesn't have subtitles though. They don't really say exactly what the story is though they refer to it as "street life" or something to that affect as well as the mental illness. (Just cus your schizo doesn't mean you cant be a heroin addict also.)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 21:29:04
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
Drugs(I'm including smoking & drinking) are common in flamenco culture because most flamencos grew up poor. Poor people do drugs, that simple. Not all of course but a large majority. There were about 10-12 of us who grew up on this one block and not one of us got away completely unscathed by chemical use of some sort. Why? I don't know, maybe because being poor sucks and getting high is an easy escape.........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 21:35:50
 
lukeofgod

Posts: 113
Joined: Jan. 11 2012
From: Bay Area- CA

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Leñador) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

quote:

That's unfortunate. Hopefully it's subtitled in english


I have that doc, it doesn't have subtitles though. They don't really say exactly what the story is though they refer to it as "street life" or something to that affect as well as the mental illness. (Just cus your schizo doesn't mean you cant be a heroin addict also.)


Oh I see, weird how things work out
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 21:43:06
 
Grisha

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 21:58:03
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Is Grisha on performance enhanci... (in reply to Bulerias2005) 
quote:

My family became pretty poor end of 80-s - beginning of 90-s. At some point we had not enough money even to buy bread every day. I stayed off drugs. Doing them would be an insult to my parents who sacrificed a lot for me.


You're obviously an exceptional person Grisha, the fact that you can play as well as you do says a lot more about you then just "your good at the guitar". I would call you the exception to the rule, not the rule.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2013 22:09:33
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