Neck re-shaping

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Neck re-shaping

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tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

Neck re-shaping

I wonder if re-shaping a neck, removing about 1mm of material off it would cause problems with the relief of the neck? I mean that it would warp more due to the pull of the strings? Has anyone done it and did it cause any noticeable difference?

Also if one would want the neck thinner is it reasonable to remove 0,7mm from the fretboard thickness as long as the saddle has space for lowering of the action?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2013 16:13:01

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

It all depends really! I have thinned out a few necks and it has been fine. It depends on the strength of the neck and how close you think it maybe to it's limit already. You can go the refret route and take down the ebony too. It is entirely possible to lower the action at the same time as planing the finger board thinner, although it won't be thinned by the same amount the enitre way.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2013 16:27:04

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

I would assume it depends how thick the neck is already also. 1mm off a thin neck will make a bigger difference then 1mm off a thick neck. It's more the percentage of wood removed then an actual measurement.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2013 18:02:45

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

My father didn't like the thick and round neck of his Gerundino and commissioned a trustable luthier to reshape it, copying the slimmer and extremely hand friendly neck of his classical Ramirez. I guess they didn't corrupt the fretboard-side but only altered the back-side rounding of the neck with excellent results.

My father played several Gerundinos and they all had differently shaped necks. We are not sure if this variation in neck shape/mass was random/coincidental or part of a genius system balancing neck and body characteristics.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2013 18:22:04

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

I think you answer your questions pretty well yourself.
Yes, you can remove material, most probably the neck will stay where it is now if you take off 1 or 2 mm, but there´s a chance it´ll bow a little bit. If it does, this can normally be fixed by removing the frets, levelling the fingerboard and refret the guitar, which is not very complicated. (and then you´ll have new frets.)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 8:03:56

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

On the other hand, it is possible that if the thinned neck bows a little this will provide beneficial additional fingerboard relief, making it so the action can be lowered further without further buzzing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 13:22:19

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to Erik van Goch)

What would be the method to copy another guitars neck profile if one wants to copy it onto the guitar that's being "re-shaped"?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 16:09:57

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

Cut little profiles of cardboard that follows the neckshape.

If you get to much neck relief, the guitar will buzz in the upper frets and it´ll be more noticeable when playing with a capo. There shouldnt be more than around half a mm.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 16:21:27

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

You can just cut the templates trial and error till you get a match, or just use what is called a template gauge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 17:47:17

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

What would be the method to copy another guitars neck profile if one wants to copy it onto the guitar that's being "re-shaped"?

The neck that had to be re-shaped happened to be more volumed in all contours than the slim and hand-friendly Ramirez neck that had to be copied. In the same way a sculpture is made by removing the access of material the Ramirez neck was distilled by removing the local exes of wood of the original neck.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 17:54:44

britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

the slim and hand-friendly Ramirez neck

I find this discussion very interesting, as I'd like to be able to 'specify' a neck profile if I had a new guitar built.

Can you - or someone - advise if its possible to get actual dimensions of the Ramirez neck profile, should anyone wish to copy it?

And further, could this slim neck profile be practical and functional with any type of wood, without further reinforcement to avoid bowing?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 18:52:23

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to britguy)

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

quote:

the slim and hand-friendly Ramirez neck

Can you - or someone - advise if its possible to get actual dimensions of the Ramirez neck profile, should anyone wish to copy it?

Theoretically i could try to make a paper or carton mould, but even when i succeed making one i would struggle to get it posted (no idea yet how to include other sources than youtube or www-links like photographs, sound recordings or transcriptions). On top, neck preferences are a very personal thing (al hands and wishes are different) so what feels fine to my father can be disliked by others. He choose that particular Ramirez because it's neck was 100% to his likings, but in the same way he disliked the (tapered) necks of several other Ramirez guitars others might not favor his favorite neck. Because all hands are build differently (size, shape and wiring) one can not always copy/use the original fingering of the masters, in the same way others might not be able to copy every solution you come up with.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 19:39:49

flyhere

Posts: 121
Joined: Dec. 17 2012

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 18 2013 3:14:45

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2013 21:21:33

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to britguy)

Come on guys, you´re forgetting something. Things can be posted the old fashion way. Molds, handdrawings can be sent by post. Its not even expensive and it may save you a lot of work and at the same time you´ll be sure that the original will be correct. The digital world has its advantages, but it also has disadvantages.

quote:

And further, could this slim neck profile be practical and functional with any type of wood, without further reinforcement to avoid bowing?

If we are talking flamenco guitars, I would NEVER use anything else but Spanish cedar and there are limits on how thin I will work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2013 7:33:10

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I think I will just remove(luthier will do it) 1mm from the whole fretboard. Is there any difference in possibility of warping when removing from the fretboard vs back of the neck?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 12:33:38

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to tele)

quote:

Is there any difference in possibility of warping when removing from the fretboard vs back of the neck?

Not really. Its the wood that is the furthest away from the bending force (the strings) that gives the stiffness. So even though ebony is harder and stiffer than cedar, it doesnt really make a difference.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 16:08:06

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Neck re-shaping (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I wonder if on another hand one would like a thicker neck, would it be acceptable to replace the fretboard with 1,5mm or up to 2.5mm thicker one?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2013 12:00:59