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fxarzad

Posts: 34
Joined: Dec. 19 2011
 

how to create a falseta 

Hey guys,
I need to know how can i create a flaseta for example in solea?
i know the compas and i've played some solea falseta. but i don't know how do i create one? can anyone help me?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 9:44:10
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15201
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

quote:

ORIGINAL: fxarzad

Hey guys,
I need to know how can i create a flaseta for example in solea?
i know the compas and i've played some solea falseta. but i don't know how do i create one? can anyone help me?



Wow. Learn some MORE fasletas and compas ....and more....and more....and get a teacher while at it. Then one day maybe it'll make sense why your question doesn't make sense.

_____________________________

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 9:57:43
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

Yeah, I agree with Ricardo. You have to know many falsetas and at least several variations of a single idea (guitarists' versions of another guitarist's falseta). I think it's also necessary to be able to maintain a process of rejection or acceptance of your creations, and in order to do that you need criteria, which are only gained through experience and introspection. You should spend at least a few years concentrating on other guitarists' falsetas.

There's a copla taken from a popular saying:

No preguntes por saber
que el tiempo te dirá
no hay cosa más bonita
que saber sin preguntar

Don't ask to learn
time will tell you
there is nothing as beautiful
as knowing without asking

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 10:17:04
 
FlamencoD

 

Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

I disagree with the sentiment of "don't ask to learn" as stated in that quote. That sounds foolish. If that was good advice, why would anyone get a flamenco teacher (or teacher in anything?). I don't think its ever too early to begin composing. That said, you should probably understand the palos a little more so that you can compose very simple falsetas first. Or, for your first falseta, you could do something as simple as taking one you already know and adding some variety to it from how it is written. That way you have a form, and you're changing notes and rhythms up to make it your own.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 15:25:01
 
brandoscostumes

 

Posts: 47
Joined: Aug. 28 2010
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

answering a genuine question however silly it might seem with ´Wow.´= dick move IMO
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 17:52:46
 
shaun

Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

Listen to the noises in your head and put them to string. If you are really familiar with the palo, it'll work. If you can't do this, take a falseta you know, change a note, then tell people you wrote it. You can't learn creativity in an ask-answer or student-teacher method. Creativity comes from inspiration. To put it together you need musical experience (i.e. learn falsetas) and life experience.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 18:51:02
 
bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to brandoscostumes

Composing a falseta is really simple.

Getting started:
1. Grab your guitar.
2. Make sure your guitar is in tune.
3. Attach your capo at a comfortable position.

Composing:
1. Choose your chords.
1a. Make sure your chosen chords aren't just randomly picked. Make use of cante progressions. You might want to follow a musical question and answer pattern.
2. Choose your rhythmic structure, don't get too fancy with syncopation.
3. Choose the proper techniques. It is nice to have various techniques in your falseta. However, don't overdo it. There are excellent falsetas played with just the thumb.
4. Your first sketch is ready? Good. Now think about the melody. Think about the notes that are important for it. Put the accents in a way that make it easy for the listener to follow your idea.
4a. It's good to have a catchy melody. It shouldn't be too simple, but it helps to search for inspiration in pop music, movie themes etc.
5. Don't forget the dynamics.
6. Record yourself to check if the creation makes sense.
7. If it does not, go through your checklist again and make shure you didn't omit any of the given points.

8. Have fun!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 18:54:06
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

quote:

I need to know how can i create a flaseta for example in solea?


Wow!

I can appreciate anyone's need for personal creativity, but with so many hundreds of wonderful Soleares ( and other) falsetas already out there, just waiting for the beginner to learn and enjoy, why would anyone want to spend time and energy tyring to create their own from scratch?

Maybe your time might be better spent learning a few of the classic one's from Norm's collections. At least you would get a better idea of what had gone before, and how some of the great guitarists of the past put their ideas into music. . .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 19:13:56
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15201
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to brandoscostumes

quote:

ORIGINAL: brandoscostumes

answering a genuine question however silly it might seem with ´Wow.´= dick move IMO


wow.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 19:49:34
 
rombsix

Posts: 7919
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to bursche

quote:

inspiration in pop music, movie themes




Kudoooooooooooooooooooooo!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 19:54:41
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo

What Ricardo says is absolutely true, but when I first started getting feedback
to my questions on the foro which were similar I found them to be really
annoying. Basically this kind of advice I myself would completely ignore, and
charge ahead blindly then a few years later realize it was pretty much the
only way. :)

It's kind of like Compas, you practice all kind of things, and it just never
goes together, and then one day you realize you've internalized it and it's
kind of working. Then you start getting picky about being in the groove,
and start going back relearning everything you learned previously but
play wrong.

I think Ron always used to say "this is hard stuff" it is.

Jeff

quote:

Wow. Learn some MORE fasletas and compas ....and more....and more....and get a teacher while at it. Then one day maybe it'll make sense why your question doesn't make sense.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 21:25:41
 
Don Dionisio

 

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

Wow
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:19:01
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to rombsix

quote:



Kudoooooooooooooooooooooo!

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huh??

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:25:10
 
rombsix

Posts: 7919
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to kudo

quote:

huh??


Are you going to let Max say that one can get inspiration for melodies of flamenco falsetas from pop music or movie sound tracks? Flamenco police his ass!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:28:27
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to rombsix

quote:

Are you going to let Max say that one can get inspiration for melodies of flamenco falsetas from pop music or movie sound tracks? Flamenco police his ass!
no man, i know him, i know what he listens to

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:30:03
 
bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to kudo

Highlander theme will give a good seguiriya

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:31:20
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to bursche

quote:

Highlander theme will give a good seguiriya



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:34:44
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

quote:

Composing a falseta is really simple.

Getting started:
1. Grab your guitar.
2. Make sure your guitar is in tune.
3. Attach your capo at a comfortable position.

Composing:
1. Choose your chords.
1a. Make sure your chosen chords aren't just randomly picked. Make use of cante progressions. You might want to follow a musical question and answer pattern.
2. Choose your rhythmic structure, don't get too fancy with syncopation.
3. Choose the proper techniques. It is nice to have various techniques in your falseta. However, don't overdo it. There are excellent falsetas played with just the thumb.
4. Your first sketch is ready? Good. Now think about the melody. Think about the notes that are important for it. Put the accents in a way that make it easy for the listener to follow your idea.
4a. It's good to have a catchy melody. It shouldn't be too simple, but it helps to search for inspiration in pop music, movie themes etc.
5. Don't forget the dynamics.
6. Record yourself to check if the creation makes sense.
7. If it does not, go through your checklist again and make shure you didn't omit any of the given points.

8. Have fun!


That's really concise and well written, Imma remember that for when I do have enough knowledge to compose.

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:42:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 9416
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

Whoa!


I know how you make falsetas. And it's not easy, but not impossible. Some ideas:

Listen to cante and try to imitate the voice line in a melody on guitar try to harmonize with it in some way on other strings. Try to count it out in compas and do the best you can to get it in compas.

Then take it to your teacher or a friend who is a good guitarist and show it to them an both of you tweak it around and work it over. That is what Gitano guitarists have done for generations.

Work for general rough ideas and refine it later. Or noodle around on the guitar and find interesting little riffs you makeup yourself and try to work those into compas.

If you are working in say Solea por arriba, learn the E Phrygian scale. Take that scale and try to sound out a singers melody with that scale and learn which chords go with which sections of the melody.

Here is the thing, in music you should try to work on your own ways of improvisation and composition right from the beginning. But while you do that show your ideas to your teachers. If you find a teacher not open to that keep that teacher if they teach well in other ways, but find one who is interested in looking at your own ideas. You will reinvent the wheel a couple times, but in the end you will not have reservations about making our own music.

You may come up with an idea that you revisit in two years and right now you may not be able to fully musically articulate it, but if you keep journals in tab or notation or quick recordings of your ideas, later you may be able to develop them. I have notebook with sketches of things I would have forgotten if I had not jotted them down.

Get a recorder and listen to yourself play when you make up ideas or record the fragments of ideas that are noodling little riffs.

Composing right from the beginning is a form of ear training, and I have had several teachers who were more or less conservative, but they encouraged spending some time making up small passages on my own. Use making up falsetas as a way to listen more deeply.

Ask questions about different players strategies in making falsetas, here is a classic:

Play a well known solea falseta once through as you learned it and then repeat the same falseta, but change the ending. Pretend the first ending is a call and then make up your own ending as a response. Many solea falsetas follow that strategy to make them interesting. You don't have to make up falsetas of your own but you can work over falsetas and give them your own twist to the way they begin or end. At first your work may not be great, but over time if you think that way you can come up with good falsetas. And again show these ideas to your teachers and ask for feed back and help.

Flamenco is like any other music, there is formal structure, but there is always room to play with those structures. The people who get good at flamenco study the masters of the toque, but there is no jail or hell you go to if you start experimenting right away.

In Christopher Parkening's Classical guitar method there is short piece which is an arrangement of a Japanese folk melody called Sakura. It so happens to be in E Phrygian in this version. With a little nudging here, a little tweaking there, it can be creatively altered to fit into Solea compas. It can serve as a primary source idea to make a falseta.

That is one example of taking music from one genre and adapting it to another. Historically many flamenco guitarists have taken melodies from other sources and spun them into falsetas. Sometimes it works sand sometimes it does not, but there is no such thing as The Falseta Police when is comes to where you draw your inspiration.

Michel Foucault said "Biography is form of record keeping. Let the Police keep records."
Jean Genet said "An artist goes at society at an oblique angle, like a criminal the artist is set apart."

Cheers, and good luck making up your falsetas,

S.

Most importantly ignore these sarcastic asses.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:54:02
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1790
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to rombsix

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

Are you going to let Max say that one can get inspiration for melodies of flamenco falsetas from pop music or movie sound tracks? Flamenco police his ass!


You most definitely can. I created some very beautiful falsetas that were inspired by popular music, film music or other kinds of music. In fact i tried to compose some film music myself once, but after a very beautiful start it gradually became flamenco again (in the same way Niño Josele integrates free style and flamenco).

I think it is wise to know a little bit more than just a couple of falseta's before you start to create your own material. Composing is like writing, you have to understand the language and the grammar before you can write your first column. Starting to add/alter little things in existing material is a good start in the same way as making your own variations were possible.

My experience is that a falseta most of the time writes itself once you found the fist couple of notes. The problem is to find that first spark of inspiration. Improvising can trigger an idea and quite often finding 1 or 2 inspiring chords and/or a couple of melody notes can be the start of a great idea. The tarantas i posted on youtube was basically constructed around two sparks of inspiration. The free introduction wrote itself in seconds once i found the first 3 chords and the tremolo was there instantly there after i found the first 2 chords....if you speak the language a spark of inspiration is enough to light the fire, finding that spark to me is the real problem although every time i needed/wanted to compose (for one reason or the other) something nice came out sooner or later.

You can argue about the "amount of flamenco" in the theme itself but i most certainly like CobraGuitarra's arrangement of/variations around this Harry Potter theme. The falseta's i wrote myself that were inspired by film music in general were no arrangements of the original melodies but only used a couple of notes of it to light the fire.....sometimes the notes i contributed myself when making a personal arrangement of a film melody were the inspiration for a later falseta. In those cases not even the original composer will recognize the first source of inspiration.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2013 0:48:28
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Erik van Goch

Erik ...I usually dont like stuff like that ... but the Harry Potter thing is fantastic ..great sound on the guitar and really well done in the flamenco style .. good player ..everything .. i listened straight away about 5 times ....love it .....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2013 8:38:08
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1790
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

A famous composer ones said "you must remember everything you have heard but you must forget were you heard it". I once composed a lovely mineras falseta and knew a small part of it was inspired by a PDL soleares. But as it turned out the whole first half was PDL note by note (from a record i hardly ever played called castro marin). My continuation however was totally different but still very plausible and on top triggered a second falseta as well, all very much in pdl style (at the time i played the first half of his siroco mineras and i wanted to end it in style). The same mineras part that inspired me also inspired Tomatito in one of his bulerias falsetas.

Translating ideas from 1 palo to the other is not uncommon. When i was in need of a nice tango falseta for beginners i translated a bulerias falseta from Erik Vaarzon Morel. My father included it in the tangos data bank of Paco Peña's flamenco university school and a couple of years later 1 of the students made a bulerias of it once again:-) Most of the time i realize only later that the first spark comes from an other palo or an existing melody/harmony (flamenco or non flamenco) so i don't deliberately select/use them to inspire me but they somehow do.

I guess part of the creating process is done by your fingers, who (over the years) learned to speak the flamenco language as well. Sometimes the way the music is arranged contributes more to the flamenco sound than the melody itself, but idealistically both should be in line with the flamenco tradition. In general both the melody and the arrangement are created simultaneously in a flow of inspiration.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2013 18:49:26
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to britguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

I can appreciate anyone's need for personal creativity, but with so many hundreds of wonderful Soleares ( and other) falsetas already out there, just waiting for the beginner to learn and enjoy, why would anyone want to spend time and energy tyring to create their own from scratch?



I totally disagree with this statement.
Creativity is one of the more important part of flamenco.
Without creativity, we'll just be like the classical world, where you play music that has been written from 200 years ago till last century (eg all the classical pieces) and played by heaps and heaps of other people.

And different musicians have different composition style..
I've always placed these 2 players on the different end of the flamenco spectrum, and everyone else falls in between them. Tomatito and Jose Luis Monton.

But if you're a beginner, just learn the basics like compas and technique.. and the creativity side hopefully would come after you have all the techniques and compas to go along with it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2013 22:35:00
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15201
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

I can appreciate anyone's need for personal creativity, but with so many hundreds of wonderful Soleares ( and other) falsetas already out there, just waiting for the beginner to learn and enjoy, why would anyone want to spend time and energy tyring to create their own from scratch?



I totally disagree with this statement.
Creativity is one of the more important part of flamenco.
Without creativity, we'll just be like the classical world, where you play music that has been written from 200 years ago till last century (eg all the classical pieces) and played by heaps and heaps of other people.

And different musicians have different composition style..
I've always placed these 2 players on the different end of the flamenco spectrum, and everyone else falls in between them. Tomatito and Jose Luis Monton.

But if you're a beginner, just learn the basics like compas and technique.. and the creativity side hopefully would come after you have all the techniques and compas to go along with it.



It is not just about creativity and technique. There is also respect for the tradition, and taste. Even the greats such as PDL admit they often trash good music, not because it's not good, but because listening back with an aficionado's ear, it's simply NOT flamenco ....or flamenco "enough". I don't mean to be harsh but the way I think of it along those lines, (because there is infact SO MUCH one could study while waiting for creative inspiration) is if you have to ask others "hey, is THIS thing I made up proper flamenco?" ...then it probably is NOT. One must have done some work to compose in this genre. Sabicas put it this way...a guitarist needs to FIRST accompany cante for 20 years, and baile for 20 years....THEN he is ready to play solo (you can say create a composition too).

The point is the same...flamenco as a genre does not allow for carefree watered down shallow attempts at creativity. At first this level of discipline SEEMS constrained...but after one understands what the boundries are it soon becomes apparent the actual scope for creation is almost infinite. The art form as a WHOLE deserves the respect of students to NOT get ahead of themselves, as even the maestro's struggle with this all the time; creating something "new" that tastes ancient somehow.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 3:52:59
 
estebanana

Posts: 9416
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

The art form as a WHOLE deserves the respect of students to NOT get ahead of themselves, as even the maestro's struggle with this all the time; creating something "new" that tastes ancient somehow.


Well oh the world will end if some student plays with falsetas and makes something in bad taste!!!

Oh the sky is falling, let me put my helmet on my widdle head.

I read an interview with Irene Sharp the esteemed cello teacher. She was asked the question of whether or not she let her students copy and listen to the great players styles. The counter argument being from some that copying creates clone musicians.

She said not at all, .."it would be such a shame if we created another Rostropovich."

It would be the end of the world if someone made a bad falseta. Oh Dear, my, my.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 4:07:57
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15201
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana

quote:

It would be the end of the world if someone made a bad falseta. Oh Dear, my, my.


....wow.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 4:32:23
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo

dont force it, copy from the best until your own ideas cut through, Ricardo is right

you need to play a lot of variations to get enough of an idea to get your own...its so so hard to start with a blank canvas when your paint jars are empty


I know that i tried and tried before i was ready to be an " individual" and didn't come up with anything i still like...anything that felt like ..."yes thats flamenco'

the best things i came up with were mixing different falsetas of other people, changing small parts in them etc..


playing other peoples falsetas does not mean at all one cant be creative and insert himself and his own personality into it...be playful with it and even change the feel or the rhythm

just my opinion...when you are ready to compose you own falsetas, you wont need to ask here on how to do it...you just will because youl know exactly what you want

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 7:12:02
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana

Stephen, is that a photo of Fletcher?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 8:21:53
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
The point is the same...flamenco as a genre does not allow for carefree watered down shallow attempts at creativity.


This must be from your application letter to the flamenco police LOL. Im not sure what you mean. I would consider creating a traditional solea falseta a very shallow attempt at creativity, because you can stick very closely to previous variations, so there is little creativity needed, and it will sound flamenco because people are used to have a certain sound in solea. A different task would be to incorporate the Billy Jean (or whatever else) melody into a solea falseta. I could imagine that would take some more skill to make it sound right. So all in all: flamenco does not = high or advanced creativity.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 9:39:05
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad

fxarzad this is not for you...its speaking in general my view on "creativity" before time


making up a falseta before you are "flamenco matured and extensively flamenco educated" is as creative as getting a tattoo this days to stand out and be different as an individual

Everyone that was too in a hurry to be modern to learn or appreciate traditional has tried it...about 70% of all guitarists thought they were too modern and too groovy and they were going to make compositions that just blew peoples minds...cut to 7 years later...they realize traditional is the launching point for everything and go back....the quickest way is the slowest way

name me one flamenco guitarist that does not have a strong traditional background that can do amazing modern flamenco compositions that we talk about today...there aren't any


One cannot appreciate or do modern unless they can do and appreciate traditional first

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 12:40:01
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