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Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

thanx a lot Blondie for your informative replies

actually it seems like i have this focal thing because after examining this guy and his videos on the right side
http://www.focaldystonia.co.uk/#/my-story/4562945993

it looks like the same problem i have so thank you for enlightening me i learnt a lot
its really something scary ... i will never think about the guitar in the same way from now on

hope i will be able to handle it

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2012 14:36:07
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

I just re -read your earlier post. The fact that the problem is not there when you play arps slowly is a massive plus - how slow?

Take a pattern and use a metronome to measure exactly where your FD threshold is for any given combination (it will be different for different combos). Then use that as the basis to retrain, working comfortably under the threshold where you are 100% sure there is no unwanted tension at all. Use a mirror to help you as your physical senses alone will not be not reliable.

Practice any combo by flexing and then releasing/relaxing each finger individually BEFORE the next finger plays - you are training independence and do not want 'overlap'. Don't plant - that means extending and touching down together. Planting can only be re-introduced when you fingers are working independently again.

Move the metronome up very gradually eg perhaps after a week working at one speed, perhaps longer, you are the judge. If you try and kid yourself you can go faster and tensions are still there you will have to start all over again.

Expect the retraining to take as long as it took for the problem to grow to where it is.

Variety is good - the more variety of stimuli (different combos) the more info your brain has to rewrite the correct 'map'. The more positive you are, the better. The more frustrated you are when retraining, the less likely it is you will get anywhere.

Yes, it is scary how fragile our control is. Flamenco is full of techniques that require controlling and releasing tension at speeds, and requires many, many hours of practice to reach a high level. It is not surprising that many players get injuries and I am quite sure that many instances of FD in Spain get written off as other types of injury due to lack of awareness.

Good luck.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2012 14:59:49
 
Elie

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Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

I just re -read your earlier post. The fact that the problem is not there when you play arps slowly is a massive plus - how slow?


yes actually and im grateful to that and to your golden words ..
about the speed not so slow i can maintain a medium speed i would say
i uploaded this audio 3 months ago:
https://soundcloud.com/aeli/arpegio-combinado
i can play it half the speed now

im practicing the lobos etude with metronome like you said and actually could improve slightly within 1 week so i feel its something i can cure hopefully

I will follow your guide carefully thank you for your time and your patience writing these advises

it seems what i need now is patience

do you think that finger fitness exercises would help ?
http://www.handhealth.com/

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2012 16:35:24
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:


do you think that finger fitness exercises would help ?
http://www.handhealth.com/


There is nothing wrong with your fingers

Stretching and exercises are good for anyone and certainly if you have tension, but this is supplementary. You (probably) have a sensory motor disorder, not a problem with your fingers per se.

PS Villa Lobos is IMO way to complicated for retraining, its a CG concert piece. Part of your concentration will be on the music, the chord changes etc, none of which will help your right hand.

Keep the patterns simple, use open strings, maximise your concentration on the problem. More quality retraining = faster recovery.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2012 17:48:20
 
Elie

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Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

again golden words

you know i remember being told that before, that i should focus on the right hand when retraining or correcting
I got it, thank you tons

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2012 20:07:43
 
orsonw

Posts: 1929
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

I am making a good recovery from focal dystonia.

I have the advantage of being a physical therapist with neuro rehabilitation experience but in my opinion anyone can recover from this.

I think it has been a combination of things that has worked for me. I have found whole body awareness with very slow and careful retraining very important; I mean not even music, simply holding the guitar or placing a finger on the string and noticing where there is tension and practicing letting it go, then building up to actually playing a note and noticing what happens then etc. Even thinking of then playing another consecutive finger would be advanced level practice!

I have found starting right from the ground up the best solution. I have had to identify where and when unwanted muscle contraction occurs and train it out. I have also worked specifically on improving the sensory representation of each finger in the cortex.

Another important thing was trying not to get frustrated. I stopped playing the difficult appegios and picados but I didn't stop playing music and I didn't stop performing, there's a lot one can do to with simple technique and still enjoy it.

I am making good progress, my technique is better now than prior to the onset of focal dystonia. I wish you well and be patient!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2012 20:50:58
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

thank you orsonw for your encouragement and reply
I wish you a full recovery soon

quote:

Another important thing was trying not to get frustrated. I stopped playing the difficult appegios and picados but I didn't stop playing music and I didn't stop performing, there's a lot one can do to with simple technique and still enjoy it.

yes i understand, i reached the point that i started to believe that its a game over for me , no more music or guitar ... but now i feel much better

I hope I can use this problem to my own advantage by fixing and correcting my technique

thank you guys

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2012 12:14:53
 
Miguel de Maria

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Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

Elie,
hopefully you will not need this, but this article was written by a prominent classical guitarist who recovered from FD.

http://www.davidleisner.com/CuringFocalDystonia.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2012 13:53:26
 
Elie

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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

thank you miguel, I will take a look at that

i found some interesting stuff:

it seems that the sticking-out pinky is considered as a Focal Dystonia

I found these videos by Dr Jonathan Kuttner and they are logical to me

check out the monkey experiment in part || and how that the clear definition or representation between the fingers in brain had become unclear after doing specific tasks







some interesting discussion about using rubber bands and some vitamins and materials

http://www.dystonia-bb.org/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/forums/mwd?cmd=iYz&aK=3348&iZz=3348&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2012 17:47:26
 
Elie

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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

and would anyone like to comment on this

quote:


my theory is that in my case, a zinc b6 deficiency may have broken the proper signal flow between my brain and my hand. from there, because of neuroplasticity, my brain tried to learn around it and really messed a lot of things up in the process. now that i've managed to open up the healthy signal flow again with zinc and b6, i'm still left with the damage that was done. but, the upside is i'm much more responsive to retraining.





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2012 18:20:50
 
Blondie#2

 

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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

Personally I think its wild speculation and wishful thinking, but I never underestimate the power of the placebo effect.

I don't know of anyone who recovered from FD by taking food supplements, Elie. Its a bit like thinking your tremolo will improve if you take vitamins. I know the guy isn't quite saying that but its close to what one or two people have said on that board.

The smeared representation of the fingers referred to in the videos is precisely what I was talking about in my earlier post. Nancy Byl is one of the leading researchers in FD.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2012 19:39:10
 
Elie

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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

I thought the same blondie, thank you !

so what do you think about the rubber band ?
using the rubber band around the ring and the pinky to prevent the pinky from sticking out make my hand super relaxed during i-m picado

today i had a better feeling about the curling middle finger and then I started playing some pieces in a better shape but then suddenly something happened and brought back the curling and the awkward feeling

so blondie you do have great info about the issue
did you face this problem before (if so hope you totally recovered)? or are you a doctor ?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2012 14:35:42
 
mark indigo

 

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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

using the rubber band around the ring and the pinky to prevent the pinky from sticking out make my hand super relaxed during i-m picado


not recommended

putting weights or bands etc. on your fingers is risky and potentially damaging

To make it stick out you need to contract the pinky extensor muscle/s.
To stop it sticking out you need to not contract the pinky extensor muscle/s.
It's better to not start the contraction than try to stop it once you've started, but that is possible.

If you can use a band to help you learn not to contract those muscles you will be ok, but it's risky 'cos if you are not really careful it could lead you to increase tension in your hand.

good luck
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2012 16:26:45
 
Blondie#2

 

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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

so what do you think about the rubber band ?
using the rubber band around the ring and the pinky to prevent the pinky from sticking out make my hand super relaxed during i-m picado


Mark makes a good point. IMO it comes down to what your fingers are doing (just going on your description here, haven't seen a video and don't now what you actually feel. For one thing it may not even be a big problem, seen Vicente's fingers?) and HOW you incorporate things like this.

For instance, if you just put on the band tightly and play away, flexing and straining against it, not good idea. But what if you use something that lightly holds A-C, (or even M-A-C) together, just to enable you feel that contact and train them to relax and move together? ..and then try without the band, feeling the contact between A and C as a guide to help you train C to relax?

So this kind of thing can be used as a tool, yes. Splints and braces are actually part of one form of treatment for FD called Constraint Induced movement therapy, though it has had limited long term success. For fingers curling inwards (like your M) I used to use a cotton reel as a support for the finger to hold to prevent it flexing all the way into the hand, enabling me to work on other fingers first.

quote:


today i had a better feeling about the curling middle finger and then I started playing some pieces in a better shape but then suddenly something happened and brought back the curling and the awkward feeling


One of the first things you have to do is put current repertoire to one side to retrain. Yep, that's tedious and hard to do but the FD movements are ingrained and programmed in, they become part of the program you hands follow to play that material.

Retrain using simple exercises, gradually incorporate NEW, simple material (not VL concert studies) and only when sorted go back to your old material.


quote:

so blondie you do have great info about the issue
did you face this problem before (if so hope you totally recovered)? or are you a doctor ?


Not a doctor. I had FD for eight years before I found the path back and it took about a couple of years to sort it out. If I knew then what I know now, I would have recovered much earlier. I did much reading on the subject, talked to people who had recovered, and saw one of the UK's specialists in the condition

Difficult to answer the question 'fully recovered' due the the level I was at when I got FD, and where i am now. In some ways I am playing at a higher level - my flamenco tremolo is better than it has ever been and yesterday I hit 160 for quarter note picado open string bursts, a massive increase in speed for me. Arpeggios are at last feeling good.

I kept a spreadsheet showing my baseline speed for all finger combos, and plotted my speeds as I recovered it helped keep me sane and see progres over months/years. This time five years ago my IM picado speed was 69, ONE note per click.

But yes there are still tensions in my hand, especially if i try and push things.
This thing is like trying to get air out of an air bed, you push down on one bit and air comes out, but some air moves and pops up elsewhere.

But is that still FD or now would we say tension problems? I think most would say the latter if they looked at my hand, but this is a grey area - where do tensions problems end and FD begin?

It takes real commitment to to recover if you do have FD, but it is certainly possible.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2012 8:38:56
 
orsonw

Posts: 1929
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Blondie#2

quote:

It takes real commitment to to recover if you do have FD, but it is certainly possible.


This is my experience also. So far it has taken two years. I am also at the point where I play better than before I developed focal dystonia. A benefit of having focal dystonia is that I have had to develop my practice skills, which will now help me to enjoy keeping on going to reach my potential as a player (whatever that is!)

I have used bands both to constrain and also in other ways just to give sensory feedback and found it very useful. Everyone is different so there's no standard protocol. I am professionally qualified in rehabilitating movement following neurological problems, this skill obviously helps me but I think anyone sensible can find their path to recovery. I agree with Mark- be careful with the use of bands.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2012 13:12:11
 
Elie

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Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

Thank you for your responses and time guys, really appreciated.
I will reread your posts many times till i totally understand

I've spent the whole day with my guitar practicing slowly and discovering.
one thing is that my hand gives a better response during i-m picado when I curve my fingers little bit (closer form to tirando) ... it seems I straighten my fingers during i-m picado
i could achieve 4 notes per beat - 90bpm on an open string with the pinky not sticking out

and something i would like to share is, as I stopped using i-m picado for months (replaced it with the i-a) now it seems I am not confident about them in other words I lost the trust with them.
if you tell me play a scale with i-m ... i feel i dont have any idea what will happen, will they success ? can I do it ? its like my brain goes blank
maybe some of you would think that im exaggerating but its really the situation im facing

I think if i can build the trust again like if i feel .. yea i can play that scale with no problem (like i do with the i-a) i would solve a great part of the problem

blondie i will provide a pic using the i-m picado, at that time i was confident about those fingers although the pinky is sticking out but i was confident about them unlike now

its really a sad condition as im involved in a duet and we were progressing very well, now i might be not up to the expectations like i used to be before

quote:

put current repertoire to one side to retrain


Blondie that would literally destroy me as a musician don't you think ?
what if I practice slowly just to keep the pieces in my head and not to forget everything i know

im really glad about your recovery, hitting 160 for quarter note picado is awesome congratulation

I will stay away from the rubber band or maybe will use it slightly as blondie recommended to remind my fingers what they should do

im not Pessimistic at the moment but maybe little bit lost ... I feel good after reading orsonw and others saying that they are now a better guitarists and I feel i can do that too because im way more careful with my hand postures now (i wasn't before at all) but knowing that it took years is kinda frustrating and raise the possibility that failing is possible

wish you all the best guys!



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2012 18:25:10
 
Blondie#2

 

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Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elie
quote:

put current repertoire to one side to retrain


Blondie that would literally destroy me as a musician don't you think ?
what if I practice slowly just to keep the pieces in my head and not to forget everything i know


This is tough, believe me, I've been there. This is the reason so many pros who get FD simply give up, it becomes too much to ask of yourself not to mention financial implications.

All I can do is warn you, but it is your decision. Keep playing your old rep you are putting your recovery on hold, at best. At worst your condition may deteriorate - you already have two unwanted contractions (pinky sticking out and flexion of M into palm). Your brain will try and resist these unwanted contractions (adding tension) and try harder to approximate the movements it cannot make as I said before. That is how this thing grows and gets more complicated to unravel, like a chain reaction. That's how people end up with contorted hands that can't play anything like in the youtube videos.

You cannot separate your technique from the music you are playing with it, it is bound together.

To keep playing, I used the same approach as Leisner, playing with just I and P with M and A held in palm. I re-learned easy repertoire this way and did this for years, gigging too and even accompanying dance classes. I was never completely satisfied though. You could do something like this or maybe even use a pick if you are playing in a duo?

If you are worried about forgetting music, play through pieces in your head, visualising everything. Clearly see your hands playing very note, with ease and without tension. You will probably even be able to play 'air guitar' and run through the pieces without your guitar without FD problems. This kind of practice will be good for you anyhow.

Tough choices, I know.

I know what you mean about the trust thing and playing IM . The point is, can you do it without tension at any speed? Put metronome at 60, can you play two notes per click and keep going? Check your hand in a mirror.

If you can, at whatever speed is necessary, you have the basis to rebuild and the basis to rebuild your trust in your fingers too, but it is one step at a time. You cannot rush this and you cannot push it. You have to 'allow' your fingers to move correctly not 'make' them. That's a really difficult idea to convey clearly, but for me it was a very important one.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 16 2012 9:11:00
 
Blondie#2

 

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Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

PS. Rubber band may help but I think you have a problem A finger: its not moving out quick enough so C is trying to help it, and its not moving in quick enough so M is trying to help it.

I would work on A by alternating A-C, A-M, and P-A. free stroke, open strings, at speeds with no tension. Try I-A free stroke to.

You have to experiment to get the right mix of exercises to take you forward, then review later and change to move on. You cannot do everything at once.

See how you get on. If you are interested, in the new year we could do a lesson via Skype.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 16 2012 9:18:36
 
Elie

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Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

Keep playing your old rep you are putting your recovery on hold, at best. At worst your condition may deteriorate - you already have two unwanted contractions (pinky sticking out and flexion of M into palm).

quote:

You cannot separate your technique from the music you are playing with it, it is bound together.


I totally agree with you and understand what you mean. but I just want you to bare with me little bit
the point is what if I play the pieces half or less the speed without triggering any focal movements ? I mean as i mentioned my hand at slow speeds is in good form no sticking out pinky or flexing middle finger
I feel its an opportunity to train my hands slowly , clean the pieces , strengthen the compas
i sure want to recover .. and if playing slowly will deteriorate my condition also, i will quit that ... but i felt it might help

quote:

I know what you mean about the trust thing and playing IM . The point is, can you do it without tension at any speed? Put metronome at 60, can you play two notes per click and keep going? Check your hand in a mirror.


yes i have my web cam on now checking my hand and yes i can play up to four notes at 60 with stable relaxed pinky

quote:

You have to 'allow' your fingers to move correctly not 'make' them. That's a really difficult idea to convey clearly, but for me it was a very important one.

I 100% understand what you mean .. i feel it , no force just go natural

quote:

I would work on A by alternating A-C, A-M, and P-A. free stroke, open strings, at speeds with no tension. Try I-A free stroke to.

glad to hear that as im already practicing these sets of fingers both tirando and appoyando
and a funny thing is that i can maintain picados with a relaxed hand using I-C better than I-M , that makes me aware of the problem more and more

quote:

See how you get on. If you are interested, in the new year we could do a lesson via Skype.

thank you for your kindness i would appreciate that i will stay in touch with you , and happy new year in advance

I was thinking about how mean the brain is (as we are talking about brain conditions), when I play a piece and concentrate in every note , sometimes i find my self forgetting a passage or lets say a part of a falseta , then if I repeat that while keeping my brain busy or occupied with something like reading or watching while playing ... i find my self able to play that forgotten passage

is it that the brain fighting with the muscle memory or is it just me having a weird brain

thank you for your time Blondie

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2012 15:22:45
 
Pingaloka

Posts: 42
Joined: Jun. 9 2011
From: Granada, España

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

I was thinking about how mean the brain is (as we are talking about brain conditions), when I play a piece and concentrate in every note , sometimes i find my self forgetting a passage or lets say a part of a falseta , then if I repeat that while keeping my brain busy or occupied with something like reading or watching while playing ... i find my self able to play that forgotten passage


Hello Elie, I once red in a book written by a famous scientific here in Spain, that when we have an automated process, it is better that the rational brain does not interfere with it.
So, if you already know a falseta, the best you can do it is put your heart on it, and concentrate on playing well, not thinking on the notes you must actually play. Or what is comming next....
This is a sort of anticipated anxiaty, and it has a lot to do with "living the present." as a sort of oriental, spiritual current.

From my point of view, Focal Dystonia is a sympton, eg. our finger, is a sign, that something is wrong with our approach to the instrument. And as anything we do is not isolated, I think that Dystonia is an opportunity to stop, and start going deep into yourself, open doors, investigate....how is it that your patterns of thinking and conditioning affects you, and therefore the instrument?

It is indeed not easy, I tell you, I know what you are going through.... but think.... if you take this with intelligence, patience, careness, and with persistence you will learn a lot about yourself, truly.

As an example, a practical example of what I'm learning from this:
Not to judge our playing, never. How? Do not compare yourself to anyone.
And don't judge if a movement is correct or incorrect, just pay attention to what you want to do.

That's the piece of information you want running from your head to your fingers, any other thoughts, negative or positive, are extra information not needed when you are actually playing. Therefore it can interfere. Imaging you walking to the nearest store and thinking all sorts of stuff about your walking. Comparing yourself to other walkers, thinking that your walk is right, etc.

So, when you start dealing with your dystonia seriously, please be patient. Try not to judge.
Seek information everywhere, don't be afraid of looking straight to the problem.

best of luck!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2012 18:19:09
 
Erik van Goch

 

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Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elie

I was thinking about how mean the brain is (as we are talking about brain conditions), when I play a piece and concentrate in every note , sometimes i find my self forgetting a passage or lets say a part of a falseta , then if I repeat that while keeping my brain busy or occupied with something like reading or watching while playing ... i find my self able to play that forgotten passage

is it that the brain fighting with the muscle memory or is it just me having a weird brain




When i concentrate on my playing i make lot's of unwanted oral noises ...the funny thing is that i don't seem to do that when i watch TV simultaneously or have other things that distract my brain.....in the meantime my fingers play the pice equally good if not better than with brain control. Also, with insufficient audio feedback (tempered strings or loud external noises) i play more rhythmical and relaxed than with full sound.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2012 15:51:32
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

sorry for the late reply but i was going around and discovering the issue

quote:

start going deep into yourself, open doors, investigate....how is it that your patterns of thinking and conditioning affects you, and therefore the instrument?


Thank you Pingaloka,
actually I think I am already doing that, aware of it or not
I never faced problems with my hands before ... and this issue made me change my thinking about the guitar, my playing and our relation ... I am playing slower and more careful now , and observing my hand most of the time

quote:


It is indeed not easy, I tell you, I know what you are going through.... but think.... if you take this with intelligence, patience, careness, and with persistence you will learn a lot about yourself, truly.


I'm pretty sure of that, because it already affected my thinking about the guitar, my body and life too ... and I am optimistic that i can get back in good shape

quote:

And don't judge if a movement is correct or incorrect, just pay attention to what you want to do.


im not sure i could understand this sentence properly
isn't what caused me this some wrong movements ?
I mean i would never achieve good speed with this sticking out pinky

quote:

That's the piece of information you want running from your head to your fingers, any other thoughts, negative or positive, are extra information not needed when you are actually playing.


very interesting thought , thank you for bringing it up never thought of that before

quote:

So, when you start dealing with your dystonia seriously, please be patient. Try not to judge.
Seek information everywhere, don't be afraid of looking straight to the problem.


Thank you for the advice I feel sometimes that im fed up with this condition , but then I take a breathe and keep my focus on the goal

Thank you Pingaloka and Erik for the thoughts about the rational brain process

about the picado I changed my technique slightly by keeping the A and pinky slightly curved inside (not touching the palm) .. like if im doing a tirando picado , its like learning from scratch but hopefully i will feel better in couple weeks

I am working on arpeggios step by step and involving the pinky in both tremelo and arpeggio because i feel its causing lots of problems

thank you all for your time , thoughts and support

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 20 2012 20:16:13
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

a must read article :

http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/filebin/pdf/focal%20dystonia.pdf

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 3 2013 18:33:04
 
johnnefastis

Posts: 630
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

That looks interesting thanks Elie, I don't want to think about it too much but there seems to be some good advice in there, drinking water, taking breaks etc etc.

8) Avoid planting.

Now that could be a hard one to stop. Planting the thumb seems to be pretty essential to flamenco these days.

I sincerely hope you are getting back on track and recovering well Elie.

Keep us updated on your progress.

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 3 2013 19:52:43
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

thank you so much johnnefastis for your concern

actually I really found this article very informative and important,i m even printing it and sending it to some fellow musicians because I wish i knew this info before ... i would not harm my hands . what drove me to this situation was my obsession with flamenco technique and i have some friends that are the same and need to be informed

about my progress I am trying to be patient as much as i can, the problem is my schedule is tight nowadays because im about to graduate from Uni and i am not practicing so much ... but i made some progress I am able to play some stuff i wasn't able to play when i started this thread ... maybe its good to stay away from the instrument for a while and practices without the instrument , I will keep you updated

I believe that I developed this situation between Aug. 15 2012 and Dec. 5 2012 so maybe i need double the time to recover or who knows ...

i think focusing on classical or jazz music for a while might be a good idea

cheeers !

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 4 2013 18:51:21
 
Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

Thanks for the interesting read Elie (the PDF)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 5 2013 14:39:25
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

you're welcome Flamencito

quote:

My teacher back when I was first learning gave me the exercise of holding a stub of a pencil or a Bic type pen cap with my curled pinky while I did arpeggios and scales. At first it was horribly difficult but after a couple weeks I started to curl my pinky naturally and no longer had to practice with the pencil. I could feel the hand was far more relaxed and I never again reverted to the extended 4th finger problem


does any one know if the method mentioned above might help ? or cause any further harm to my hands ?

btw after observing the nature of my hand and brain over n over I found that the main cause of the pinky sticking out is the relationship between the pinky and the M , because when performing M-Pinky picado the pinky sticks out and it doesn't with I and A

a funny fact is when i play picado (tirando or appoyando) with Pinky and M , it causes the index to stick out

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 7 2013 18:15:32
 
orsonw

Posts: 1929
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

quote:

My teacher back when I was first learning gave me the exercise of holding a stub of a pencil or a Bic type pen cap with my curled pinky while I did arpeggios and scales. At first it was horribly difficult but after a couple weeks I started to curl my pinky naturally and no longer had to practice with the pencil. I could feel the hand was far more relaxed and I never again reverted to the extended 4th finger problem



does any one know if the method mentioned above might help ? or cause any further harm to my hands ?


Where did this quote come from?
Interesting, I just tried playing I/M picado like this and it made my hand feel much more relaxed, solid and easy. Not sure how one could play arpeggios because it causes the A finger to stay flexed also. Have to think about if it is a good idea, I think it's probably just creating another problem.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 7 2013 21:41:55
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:

Where did this quote come from?

the fifth reply in here :
http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56064

quote:

my hand feel much more relaxed, solid and easy

exactly. even after dropping the pen intentionally during the exercise , my hand would still work properly for a while

quote:

Not sure how one could play arpeggios because it causes the A finger to stay flexed also

isn't that desirable during an arpeggio ?

thank you for your answer

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 7 2013 23:48:58
Guest

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

Thanks Elie
This has been a most informative and enlightening thread.
Has helped me indentify one specific task involving pim arpeggio/tremelo that has occurred in my playing.....
I appreciate all involved in this discussion

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2013 5:38:09
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