RE: "Luthiers share your creations" thread

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constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1694
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I like the way you treated the heel cap, Andy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 3 2014 2:11:45

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Something coming up soon, but first a rosette.

A rosette, is a rosette, is a rosette.

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Attachment (2)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 3 2014 10:50:10

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3031
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Nice work Stephen. I like that green you use.
I hope non-luthiers are still checking out this thread. It seems to be slowing down...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2014 1:44:38

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks Andy,

I mix the colors on the rosette. I put yellows and blues next to each other to make greens mix in the viewers eye, and bump up already made greens with blues and yellows next to them. Kind of esoteric, but it makes rosettes "glow". That is probably why just a few concentric circles works well, if they are the right colors next to one another.

I have not been in the mood to post new work, but it's time to get back on it. I'll have something new up in a day or two. I think things are slow because it's the end of summer, but Fall brings new interest back.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2014 2:13:09

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Culpepper

Nice work Stephen. I like that green you use.
I hope non-luthiers are still checking out this thread. It seems to be slowing down...

It's slowing down as many luthiers aren't posting enough pictures of new guitars! Hopefully Autumn/Fall amends this....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2014 8:33:11

slowpoke

Posts: 3
Joined: May 10 2014

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Culpepper

I hope non-luthiers are still checking out this thread. It seems to be slowing down...

I am ending my long career as a lurker just to assure you that we are still checking out this thread

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 3:31:33

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Blanca built July- August 2014

648 scale length, German Spruce top, Cypress back & sides. French polish finish with tinted amber ground coat. Fan braces wide spread like some Granada made guitars.

Video is me playing some chords in the park after it has been strung up for one day.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 6:29:47

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

One more photo:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 6:31:49

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thats a beautifull very traditional looking blanca.

How do you make a French polish finish with tinted amber ground coat?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 7:53:47

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Senor Banana,

Beautiful work on the traditional peghead blanca.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 8:25:54

El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to estebanana)

Turned out very beautiful and very traditional looking! Congrats!

Does it have the secret Faustino first layer under the finish? :-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 10:44:57

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

How do you make a French polish finish with tinted amber ground coat?

Easy, Stew Mac 'Vintage Amber' tinting color mixed with thinned hide glue as a vehicle. Rub it on with a rag, buff it around until it glows a bit.

Jorge and I were talking about how Faustino Conde' did his color and it was revealed to us by a magical wizard in Illinois how he did it. But maybe Faustino used some German companies color as Stew Mac did not exist yet.

So it's really just darkening the wood more honey colored with a ground coat and then French polish with a regular blonde shellac over that. It looks nice, not too dark, not too raw wood pale. As everyone knows by now I don't do orange guitars, but I still like some subtle color.

This would work on a violin too. The hide glue has a surfactant conditioning effect on the wood that helps move the color evenly. The spruce can be problematic, but wood is wood, let it be. By that I mean the thin hide glue breaks the surface tension of the dry wood and allows the color to move evenly.
It looks great on maple.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 10:54:33

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to estebanana)

Video is me playing some chords in the park after it has been strung up for one day.

Ole!!! Great sounding guitar........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 13:07:22

Escribano

Posts: 6429
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I agree with Anders, very classy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 14:51:58

Ruphus

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Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

If classy means a headstock slim like a ballerina´s dance shoe then I probably lean rather towards new age design.

( `like it a tad broader and don´t mind when it is being a bit tapered even.)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 15:26:25

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
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From: Sydney, Australia

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

If classy means a headstock slim like a ballerina´s dance shoe then I probably lean rather towards new age design.

what does this even mean?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2014 23:08:56

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to HolyEvil)

quote:

what does this even mean?

When people pick at you for insignificant things and can't come up with anything else it means you have arrived at a healthy understanding of your art or craft. They hate you for being good, which simply underscores your success.

Or it means you have a fetish for ballerinas stinky feet.

You choose

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 2:07:52

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Easy, Stew Mac 'Vintage Amber' tinting color mixed with thinned hide glue as a vehicle. Rub it on with a rag, buff it around until it glows a bit.

Thanks for the answer. Its interesting. I will play around on some scratch with it next time I have some left over hide glue. It sounds messy and fun.
I´m not so sure of using it on violins. have you tried? Because of the curve of the spruce top, it gets some endgrains and endgrain is reacting VERY different than plain grain when it comes to stains.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 7:25:35

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

what does this even mean?

When ... you ... you ... your ... you ... your ...

Don´t be so vain.
My old Ramirez has the exact same proportions of the headstock, differing only with its typical crown.

That proportion won´t make me play down its other properties, ( which are good enough for it being my daily go to axe), but whenever looking at its head in view of general aesthetics it feels as if there had been skimmed on wood, with that almost just fretboard prolonging / skinny headplate.

Ruphus

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 9:59:36

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I´m not so sure of using it on violins. have you tried? Because of the curve of the spruce top, it gets some endgrains and endgrain is reacting VERY different than plain grain when it comes to stains.

I shared the idea with the folks on the violin making forum and some other guys are going to try on arch surfaces. I understand the enggrain situation. I did it on the neck which has plenty of endgrain exposed.....but Spruce is another matter.

In several well done modern varnish analysis of classic Cremonese varnish they have found proteins in the varnish layers. The one by Stewart Pollens shows what could be some glue under Strad varnish. But that does not mean it's conclusive. A couple of the pro violin makers on the other forum mentioned this is not an unheard of idea.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 10:35:28

Escribano

Posts: 6429
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

but whenever looking at its head in view of general aesthetics it feels as if there had been skimmed on wood, with that almost just fretboard prolonging / skinny headplate.

Of course, it is a matter of personal taste, but I like these headstock proportions. It kind of reminds me of early Gibson electrics that were not so tapered. It looks more vintage to me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 11:20:46

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

estebanana--nice looking piece of work. i like the headstock--reminds me of a santos headstock or a moustache.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 12:29:26

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to keith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

estebanana--nice looking piece of work. i like the headstock--reminds me of a santos headstock or a moustache.

You're right, I think it looks a bit like the Pringles moustache.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Flogos.wikia.com%2Fwiki%2FPringles&h=0&w=0&tbnid=tKrj3HR8p0GFSM&zoom=1&tbnh=258&tbnw=195&docid=hS-N2sF-GObQbM&tbm=isch&ei=Mp4RVIrRIq7G7AaiooGABQ&ved=0CAcQsCUoAQ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 13:04:27

Anders Eliasson

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RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

In several well done modern varnish analysis of classic Cremonese varnish they have found proteins in the varnish layers.

Oh yes, the violin varnish myth is enormously long and will never end.
Some think its sugar that does the thing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 13:16:54

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1694
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

It always strikes me as strange that there is so much fuss over violin varnishes, because the varnish is so thin compared to the wood and furthermore much of the varnish is worn off those great old violins anyway. Okay, the varnish looks nice; that effect should be easy to duplicate. But researching the varnish to try to capture the sound is to me barking up the wrong tree.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 13:42:41

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

Of course, it is a matter of personal taste, but I like these headstock proportions. It kind of reminds me of early Gibson electrics that were not so tapered. It looks more vintage to me.

I understand and respect how historical clues can determine aesthetical perception. ( Am having some of these myself. Would only need to dig them up from the back of my head.)

In the case of slim pegheads I am obviously applying mere proportional aspects, because of having no personal relationship / no nostalgic connection to the classic shape, nor appreciation of foregone design evolution.
- Which is also for instance why I don´t appreciate the shape of vihuelas, which to me appear only disproportional ( specially with the placement of the soundhole and that peanut plantilla ) and unergonomically formed, while antique fans due to their special empirics are raving about old vihuelas perceived beauty.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 13:44:52

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

It always strikes me as strange that there is so much fuss over violin varnishes, because the varnish is so thin compared to the wood and furthermore much of the varnish is worn off those great old violins anyway. Okay, the varnish looks nice; that effect should be easy to duplicate. But researching the varnish to try to capture the sound is to me barking up the wrong tree.

A personal suggestion / food for thought without me knowing whether it could be right or wrong:

I guess everyone here at some some time will have prepared himself a stick ( for wandering or so). Peeled off the bark and than held the stick over open fire which will dry, smoothen and harden the surface.

To me that preparation of the surface always felt as if it would effect the stick as a whole, making it harder overall / more stiff.
If that be possibly true, maybe a varnish could effect woods stiffness / resonating properties somewhat too?

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 14:02:58

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

professor nagyvary postulated the theory that strad or one of his assistants took a wizz on the wood used for his violins. the good professor actually had his research assistants wizz on wood he then used to make violins. if it is the case that old strad used urine to treat his wood the sugars and proteins allegedly found may be a sign that strad or one of his assistants was diabetic. or maybe someone dropped a chunk of meat and some pasta into the varnish vat. personally i like the theory that strad danced naked under a full moon while harvesting his wood.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 14:05:28

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1694
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

I guess everyone here at some some time will have prepared himself a stick ( for wandering or so). Peeled off the bark and than held the stick over open fire which will dry, smoothen and harden the surface.

To me that preparation of the surface always felt as if it would effect the stick as a whole, making it harder overall / more stiff.
If that be possibly true, maybe a varnish could effect woods stiffness / resonating properties somewhat too?

Ruphus

Ah, but I think holding the stick over the fire does affect the interior as well as the surface, where as the varnish only sits on the surface. For sure--at least with guitars, which I am familiar with--the varnish affects the resonating properties. It's just not that important what it's made of. (Yes, I am saying that nitrocellulose lacquer sounds as good as shellac!) Moreover, I believe that on violins the wood is thicker, so the effect is diminished.

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I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 14:07:44

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

On a flamenco guitar there are three places the maker has to show who they are:
The heel, the rosette and the head stock.

Those three areas are open for each maker to put their own stamp on the guitar or show which school of building they are thinking about at the time.

For example some makers really like a circular heel cap that was done by Torres and later picked up by Simplicio. To make reference to that in your own work is very sophisticated because it says you have looked carefully at history. Some makers like a tall elegant and pointy heel cap design as was done by the Ramirez shop in the 1950's ~ it's all viable and historically based, it just depends on what you choose to do.

The thing to remember is that to make a design and build it is really distinct from looking at a design and saying what is wrong with it if you do not build guitars. I wrestle with heads stock motifs because I want to fit into the Spanish school, but I also want to make my own mark. I really don't mind the comments people make about what associations they get from head stock motifs, often the comments are very right on target. But consider that you seldom hear guitar makers talking badly about other guitar makers head stocks in public because we all know these designs are very personal and that if you are a committed maker you are referencing a profound design that you know in history.

This is all to say that you seldom see guitar makers belittling head stock designs of other makers because we all now it is very personal and that we have our reasons for our designs.

That said, the Pringles chips comment made me laugh.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2014 14:19:14