Picado

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Picado

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1] 2 3 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

Picado

Hi, I'm a newbe.
I'm impressed by all the players who still call themselves "wannabee's"

To the point: My picado sounds "classic" and I can't get it fast enough.
Can anyone tell me something about the flamenco-way of playing picado and how to practise. My speed is around 130 bpm when I'm warmed up, but I have to force myself then not to use (shoulder)strength.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2005 21:22:37

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to koella)

[Deleted by Admins]

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2005 21:44:50

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

Practice i-m alternation, slow and steady, but with sharp staccato. That means, if you play on one open string, the next finger to play prepares the stroke way early and stops the string from ringing. So when playing 8th notes (2 notes per click), make sure to hear a quick 16th note rest between each note. (bip, bip, bip, instead of bing, bing, bing...). Notice your fingers have more economic motion when doing this. Eventually you will gain rhythmic control which will translate into speed. Try the pumping nylon "speed bursts" excercise. For a more flamenco sound, play closer to the bridge.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 19:45:31

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

Did you know that in flamenco use alot more arpegio than any other technique,

i got it mapped out like this :
in playing flamenco you use aprox.

arpegio 35%
rasqueado 30%
thumb 15 %
picado 7 %
any other technique 13 %

is funny how the most talked about technique is used probably the list, probably because it stands out the most in a piece, for example the only thing i remember about a certain Guadiana alegria is the crazyest picado run i have ever heard in my life.
who knows the one ? from Cuando el rio Suena album.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 20:12:28

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Picado (in reply to Florian)

Don't forget that short, descending picado that finishes every 2nd or 3rd arpeggio of every trad. solea.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 20:22:22

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to Escribano)

oh sorry :-) 8%

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 20:27:18

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

Ricardo: Thank you for emphasizing the staccato playing. I'm already trying in slow speed. It feels comfortable and sounds good , even in slow motion.
What I'm confused about: Do I make the movements with the upperjoints of my fingers, or do I use the middlejoints.
I read in the method of graf-martinez that it's more flamenco to play with the middlejoints, but that 's difficult for me because I played for so many years with the upperjoints due to my former classical guitarteacher.

Florian: You're absolutely right! But arpeggio's are not the trouble, I've had a proffessionally classical education. Rasguado's yes, they will always be a major concern.
What irritates me is that when I try to play a true flamenco piece, there's always a picado falseta in my way. It sounds to classic, when I play it, and I haven't got the speed.

By the way, I like the picado's from miguel ochando ( do I spell it right? #$% my english)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 20:44:18

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Picado (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

Don't forget that short, descending picado that finishes every 2nd or 3rd arpeggio of every trad. solea.

I never play that with picado

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 20:48:27

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

koella do you use a classical guitar or flamenco ?

many things can influence the sound and tone of your picado, from the guitar to your technique and size of your nails.

But playing staccato closer to the bridge is the first most obvious thing to practice.

A very good guitarist told me once to think of picado as a precussive effect when you do it it has to sound like PA! PA! PA! PA! not: pa pa pa pa (hehe all this time learning english and that is the way i explain it LOL!)

(i must say theres times when I dont want the picado to sound precussive, and i want it to flow more melodicaly, but thats just a personal preference)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 21:05:48

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

quote:

I read in the method of graf-martinez that it's more flamenco to play with the middlejoints, but that 's difficult for me because I played for so many years with the upperjoints due to my former classical guitarteacher.

Man, you're opening up a whole big can of worms that doesn't have an easy answer.

Ricardo will have a bunch of good info in this area as well.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 21:23:37

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to Patrick)

Hey Patrick !! where have you been mate ? is good to see you again, was wondering where you went.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 21:27:07

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

I'm honoured to be replyed by you, Florian, having read my way through this forum.
I'm using a ricardo sanchis I a.f. (if that means anything to you) Bought it in Amsterdam. It's cypres with a ceder top. Nothing special though. But my wife only allowed me to buy a PRO flamenco guitar when I get my Picado right

Funny that you mention the nails. I've made them shorter, very short. Indeed makes it easyier to play, and sounds more flamenco.

The PAPAPA! sound is what I want right now . The melodically way just bores me at this moment. The lady wants to hear a machinegun!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 21:28:45

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

thank you koella i am honoured that you remember my name :-)

I like short nails too, i think the biggest secret to good picado is strenghtening the other finghers of you right hand.

It somehow balances your hand so that both your I and M figer hit the string with the same force therefore giving you the PA PA PA effect you want.

so big recomandation , when you just parctice chromatic scales up and down the guitar do all fingher combinations.

IMI
IAI
MAM

this will not only be good for your picado but for, rasqueado, arpegio, tremollo

for a long time when i started out and used to see all the guitarists recommend this i ignored it thinking what do i wanna do that for ? i only wanna use IM for picado. (that was very wrong) making your A And M fingher strongher is crucial to good picado.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 21:47:46

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Picado (in reply to Florian)

quote:

oh sorry :-) 8%

That's better

Tremelo is a lot less, I guess that is why you left it out - sort of a badge of honour in puro though.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 21:56:32

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

quote:

any other technique 13 %

tremollo is included in that :-)

i feel that the use of tremollo is getting less and less in most of todays guitar solos.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:00:47

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

Tomorrow I'll get on it right away. Give it a shot. But with patience, (is what I also learned on this forum).

Mucho gracias!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:01:52

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

good koella !! come back to this same thread after a week of doing that and tell me if you notice the difference.

u wont regret it

ps. when you do , IM, MA, IA, alternate between accenting with different finghers

good exercise when doing IM, picado always try accenting M a litlle more because I is louder and stongher naturally.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:04:46

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

quote:

I never play that with picado

You should or no Oles for you

Not the "flashy" picado you are talking about, I guess, but I practise a lot of picado on a chord as flamenco often establishes the fingering.

Maybe there are two forms of picado up for discussion here?

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:05:38

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Picado (in reply to Florian)

quote:

i feel that the use of tremollo is getting less and less in most of todays guitar solos.

That's 'cos it is really hard - especially using rest strokes that I just cannot do with tremelo. It is isn't it?

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:07:15

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to Escribano)

I dont know why is not used as much Simon :-)

I know for myself for is not as practical, any other technique i can use in any part of the compas while accompaning dancers etc, but tremollo very rarely do you get to use it ( i like it in alegria silencio).

So unless theres a specific tremolo falseta or intro i like i cant say i spend much time on it, plus using 2 tremollo falsetas in the same show is overusing it. but is just speaking for myself, mibe il find the tremollo falseta that will change my taste and opinion on it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:16:15

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Picado (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

Maybe there are two forms of picado up for discussion here?

I'm not sure which two forms you mean?

By the way, I'm just a newbe on this forum and I love you all already!
It just makes me very happy!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:18:13

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Picado (in reply to Florian)

It seems to be mainly in the solea with cante (is there another kind?) - let the guitarist show off a bit - and loads of it in the palos libres

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:25:00

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

quote:

I'm not sure which two forms you mean?

There is a short, descending picado at the end of a lot of trad. solea falsetas, right? Is it also played staccato with a rest stroke (doesn't sound like it to me)? - big boy

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:27:03

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

It seems to be mainly in the solea with cante (is there another kind?) - let the guitarist show off a bit - and loads of it in the palos libres

I am confused now Simon, you talking to me about tremollo now or are you talking to koella about picado ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:28:09

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Picado (in reply to Florian)

quote:

I am confused now Simon, you talking to me about tremollo now or are you talking to koella about picado ?

To you, I was talking tremolo - a hint is in the "RE: Picado (in reply to Florian)" I'm off to bed, my head hurts.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:29:01

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

oh cool, yes it has its places where it is used and it works, again i think is just a matter of personal taste, i am a litlle over it myself, but u never know when i might find a tremollo falseta I absolutley love and wanna do it all the time.

Just like Farucca, Vicente's last album made me relike it :-) farucca as a guitar solo on modern cds was startying to die off until vicente used a different aproach to it, and gave it a more strogher rithmic aproach like a is almost like a buleria or solea por buleria almost.

hes a genius, hes the only guitarist that has the most obvious different style.

I can hear any guitarist and confuse him for any other guitarist and, but i cant confuse vicente for anyone else.
the second he plays you know is him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:35:48

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

quote:

Hey Patrick !! where have you been mate ? is good to see you again, was wondering where you went.

I have been on the sidelines a bit, but I have been keeping a close eye on you old mate. My latest project is to break in my new Lester DeVoe negra and still give time to my Aaron Green blanca. Tough job, but someone has to do it!

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:39:09

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado (in reply to Patrick)

well i am very happy to have you back, dont ever do that again :-)

is good to see so many familliar faces again all at the same time , Thomas W. you , Jon B., Miguel de B., dont ever underestimate how important you all are to the balance of this place, otherwise is me talking **** all day and noone wants that except mibe me

I missed each one of you and i didnt realize how much till u came back.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2005 22:50:09

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Picado (in reply to koella)

Florian,

So how about that group Buleria?

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 23 2005 2:03:52

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Picado (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

There is a short, descending picado at the end of a lot of trad. solea falsetas, right? Is it also played staccato with a rest stroke (doesn't sound like it to me)? - big boy

You're right Escribano. And thanks for the "chord with picado"advise!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 23 2005 7:42:14