Picado (Full Version)

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Message

koella -> Picado (Sep. 21 2005 21:22:37)

Hi, I'm a newbe.
I'm impressed by all the players who still call themselves "wannabee's"

To the point: My picado sounds "classic" and I can't get it fast enough.
Can anyone tell me something about the flamenco-way of playing picado and how to practise. My speed is around 130 bpm when I'm warmed up, but I have to force myself then not to use (shoulder)strength.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Sep. 21 2005 21:44:50)

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Ricardo -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 19:45:31)

Practice i-m alternation, slow and steady, but with sharp staccato. That means, if you play on one open string, the next finger to play prepares the stroke way early and stops the string from ringing. So when playing 8th notes (2 notes per click), make sure to hear a quick 16th note rest between each note. (bip, bip, bip, instead of bing, bing, bing...). Notice your fingers have more economic motion when doing this. Eventually you will gain rhythmic control which will translate into speed. Try the pumping nylon "speed bursts" excercise. For a more flamenco sound, play closer to the bridge.

Ricardo



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 20:12:28)

Did you know that in flamenco use alot more arpegio than any other technique,


i got it mapped out like this :
in playing flamenco you use aprox.

arpegio 35%
rasqueado 30%
thumb 15 %
picado 7 %
any other technique 13 %

is funny how the most talked about technique is used probably the list, probably because it stands out the most in a piece, for example the only thing i remember about a certain Guadiana alegria is the crazyest picado run i have ever heard in my life.
who knows the one ? from Cuando el rio Suena album.



Escribano -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 20:22:22)

Don't forget that short, descending picado that finishes every 2nd or 3rd arpeggio of every trad. solea.[:D]



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 20:27:18)

oh sorry :-) 8%



koella -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 20:44:18)

Ricardo: Thank you for emphasizing the staccato playing. I'm already trying in slow speed. It feels comfortable and sounds good , even in slow motion.
What I'm confused about: Do I make the movements with the upperjoints of my fingers, or do I use the middlejoints.
I read in the method of graf-martinez that it's more flamenco to play with the middlejoints, but that 's difficult for me because I played for so many years with the upperjoints due to my former classical guitarteacher.

Florian: You're absolutely right! But arpeggio's are not the trouble, I've had a proffessionally classical education. Rasguado's yes, they will always be a major concern.
What irritates me is that when I try to play a true flamenco piece, there's always a picado falseta in my way. It sounds to classic, when I play it, and I haven't got the speed.

By the way, I like the picado's from miguel ochando ( do I spell it right? #$% my english)



koella -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 20:48:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

Don't forget that short, descending picado that finishes every 2nd or 3rd arpeggio of every trad. solea.[:D]


I never play that with picado[;)]



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 21:05:48)

koella do you use a classical guitar or flamenco ?

many things can influence the sound and tone of your picado, from the guitar to your technique and size of your nails.

But playing staccato closer to the bridge is the first most obvious thing to practice.

A very good guitarist told me once to think of picado as a precussive effect when you do it it has to sound like PA! PA! PA! PA! not: pa pa pa pa (hehe all this time learning english and that is the way i explain it LOL!)

(i must say theres times when I dont want the picado to sound precussive, and i want it to flow more melodicaly, but thats just a personal preference)



Patrick -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 21:23:37)

quote:

I read in the method of graf-martinez that it's more flamenco to play with the middlejoints, but that 's difficult for me because I played for so many years with the upperjoints due to my former classical guitarteacher.


Man, you're opening up a whole big can of worms that doesn't have an easy answer.

Ricardo will have a bunch of good info in this area as well.

BTW, welcome to the forum.



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 21:27:07)

Hey Patrick !! where have you been mate ? is good to see you again, was wondering where you went.



koella -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 21:28:45)

I'm honoured to be replyed by you, Florian, having read my way through this forum.
I'm using a ricardo sanchis I a.f. (if that means anything to you) Bought it in Amsterdam. It's cypres with a ceder top. Nothing special though. But my wife only allowed me to buy a PRO flamenco guitar when I get my Picado right[;)]

Funny that you mention the nails. I've made them shorter, very short. Indeed makes it easyier to play, and sounds more flamenco.

The PAPAPA! sound is what I want right now . The melodically way just bores me at this moment. The lady wants to hear a machinegun![8|]



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 21:47:46)

thank you koella i am honoured that you remember my name :-)

I like short nails too, i think the biggest secret to good picado is strenghtening the other finghers of you right hand.

It somehow balances your hand so that both your I and M figer hit the string with the same force therefore giving you the PA PA PA effect you want.

so big recomandation , when you just parctice chromatic scales up and down the guitar do all fingher combinations.

IMI
IAI
MAM

this will not only be good for your picado but for, rasqueado, arpegio, tremollo

for a long time when i started out and used to see all the guitarists recommend this i ignored it thinking what do i wanna do that for ? i only wanna use IM for picado. (that was very wrong) making your A And M fingher strongher is crucial to good picado.



Escribano -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 21:56:32)

quote:

oh sorry :-) 8%


That's better [:D] Tremelo is a lot less, I guess that is why you left it out - sort of a badge of honour in puro though.



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:00:47)

quote:

any other technique 13 %


tremollo is included in that :-)

i feel that the use of tremollo is getting less and less in most of todays guitar solos.



koella -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:01:52)

Tomorrow I'll get on it right away. Give it a shot. But with patience, (is what I also learned on this forum).

Mucho gracias!!



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:04:46)

good koella !! come back to this same thread after a week of doing that and tell me if you notice the difference.


u wont regret it


ps. when you do , IM, MA, IA, alternate between accenting with different finghers


good exercise when doing IM, picado always try accenting M a litlle more because I is louder and stongher naturally.



Escribano -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:05:38)

quote:

I never play that with picado


You should or no Oles for you [:D]

Not the "flashy" picado you are talking about, I guess, but I practise a lot of picado on a chord as flamenco often establishes the fingering.

Maybe there are two forms of picado up for discussion here?



Escribano -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:07:15)

quote:

i feel that the use of tremollo is getting less and less in most of todays guitar solos.


That's 'cos it is really hard - especially using rest strokes that I just cannot do with tremelo. It is isn't it?



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:16:15)

I dont know why is not used as much Simon :-)


I know for myself for is not as practical, any other technique i can use in any part of the compas while accompaning dancers etc, but tremollo very rarely do you get to use it ( i like it in alegria silencio).

So unless theres a specific tremolo falseta or intro i like i cant say i spend much time on it, plus using 2 tremollo falsetas in the same show is overusing it. but is just speaking for myself, mibe il find the tremollo falseta that will change my taste and opinion on it.



koella -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:18:13)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano


Maybe there are two forms of picado up for discussion here?


I'm not sure which two forms you mean?

By the way, I'm just a newbe on this forum and I love you all already!
It just makes me very happy![sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]



Escribano -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:25:00)

It seems to be mainly in the solea with cante (is there another kind?) - let the guitarist show off a bit - and loads of it in the palos libres



Escribano -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:27:03)

quote:

I'm not sure which two forms you mean?


There is a short, descending picado at the end of a lot of trad. solea falsetas, right? Is it also played staccato with a rest stroke (doesn't sound like it to me)? - big boy[;)]



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:28:09)

quote:

It seems to be mainly in the solea with cante (is there another kind?) - let the guitarist show off a bit - and loads of it in the palos libres



I am confused now Simon, you talking to me about tremollo now or are you talking to koella about picado ?[8|]



Escribano -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:29:01)

quote:

I am confused now Simon, you talking to me about tremollo now or are you talking to koella about picado ?


To you, I was talking tremolo - a hint is in the "RE: Picado (in reply to Florian)" I'm off to bed, my head hurts.



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:35:48)

oh cool, yes it has its places where it is used and it works, again i think is just a matter of personal taste, i am a litlle over it myself, but u never know when i might find a tremollo falseta I absolutley love and wanna do it all the time.

Just like Farucca, Vicente's last album made me relike it :-) farucca as a guitar solo on modern cds was startying to die off until vicente used a different aproach to it, and gave it a more strogher rithmic aproach like a is almost like a buleria or solea por buleria almost.

hes a genius, hes the only guitarist that has the most obvious different style.

I can hear any guitarist and confuse him for any other guitarist and, but i cant confuse vicente for anyone else.
the second he plays you know is him.



Patrick -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:39:09)

quote:

Hey Patrick !! where have you been mate ? is good to see you again, was wondering where you went.


I have been on the sidelines a bit, but I have been keeping a close eye on you old mate. My latest project is to break in my new Lester DeVoe negra and still give time to my Aaron Green blanca. Tough job, but someone has to do it!

Pat



Florian -> RE: Picado (Sep. 22 2005 22:50:09)

well i am very happy to have you back, dont ever do that again :-)

is good to see so many familliar faces again all at the same time , Thomas W. you , Jon B., Miguel de B., dont ever underestimate how important you all are to the balance of this place, otherwise is me talking **** all day and noone wants that except mibe me [:D]


I missed each one of you and i didnt realize how much till u came back.



Patrick -> RE: Picado (Sep. 23 2005 2:03:52)

Florian,

So how about that group Buleria?

Pat



koella -> RE: Picado (Sep. 23 2005 7:42:14)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

There is a short, descending picado at the end of a lot of trad. solea falsetas, right? Is it also played staccato with a rest stroke (doesn't sound like it to me)? - big boy[;)]


You're right Escribano. And thanks for the "chord with picado"advise!



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