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RE: taking time away   You are logged in as Guest
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El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Don't abandon me now guys!

My only real comments to this thread is that this section of forum was the main reason I decided to start building flamenco guitars.
I was inspired and excited by all the fascinating discussions about the art of spanish construction.
I did this with a certain confidence that the group might help me by answering my silly questions, pointing me in the right direction, critiquing my efforts etc... I would never have started if I had not had you guys around to give me some support and advice or just stop me before I do something really silly.

Flamenco is a very small world in the great scheme of things and it seems to attract a certain craziness almost by necessity. Myself included certainly! This is what makes it interesting and the fire it stirs up is what fuels the art I believe...

Stay around!

I love this place!



Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 13:03:08


Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: taking time away (in reply to El Polaco

Well this has made for some interesting reading.

I think society and forums have plenty of rules and don't really need anymore. I also think everyone needs to chill about the self promotion thing. I just don't get it and don't care. We are all in business and as long as we're not out there saying "I'm so much better than so and so" should be taken as just another way of letting the world know about our guitars. One can always choose not to read or respond to a particular thread.

Since luthiers here are sharing information I think a some self promotion is perfectly justified, it's a slippery slope between the two (this is how I do it/ here's the final product) and since no one is hurt in the process whats the big deal?

It also seems to me to be the luthiers doing most of the complaining and that ought to stop, it's just bad form. My response to that is I'm going to order El Guitarrero, get a few good bottles of Rioja, sit back and watch Anders work. I love watching others work. I can do it all day.:)

I might even learn something.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 13:40:38

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: taking time away (in reply to aarongreen

Yeah I feel the same way. I enjoy learning things from other builders and sharing some things as well. I never tire of talking shop. I understand estebanana's frustration. As a dealer, I get quite a bit of people calling, asking a lot of questions and even have me find some things out from the builders, and still not order a thing. That's just the way it goes. You can't take it personal. It's our job to inform guitarists as much as we can so that they make the best decision. Once I decide to build guitars professionally, it'll still be that way. It is what it is.


Tom Núñez
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 14:34:15
Don Dionisio


Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: taking time away (in reply to El Polaco

Or, you could just not respond when someone asks questions about woods, tuners,
strings, ya mama, or anything else...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 15:55:00
Shawn Brock


Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana


ORIGINAL: estebanana

I don't need to process this with you any further. Let the list get back on it's way. I'm out for a while because I need some space from this and you while I work.

Yeah Stephen, that's what you keep saying. Just like a battered woman, "I'm out this time.". But you never are. Just keep on being a drama queen...

I tried for a month to pay you a deposit and get my name on the list, and you weren't a responsible enough business man to even get that done. Meanwhile I see on Facebook that you are putting your list on hold to build a guitar for someone else who isn't on the list? How's that supposed to make a paying customer feel? I can tell you being that it seems that your process to think logically has left you. 1: This builder won't call me back. 2: He hasn't given me info about paying the list deposit. 3: He's "going to build this guitar for ***** and thin I'll go back to making guitars on my waiting list." That's all behind us now, so no need to talk about it.

I could unleash on you pretty heavy here but I won't. You would probably like that... What you need to remember is not what I think about you, but what people in the future will think about you when they read these threads. At this point I would worry that this is harming my business if I was in your shoes. Maybe it isn't and maybe it never will, but its not worth the chance. You already have many threads that you have been a part of which didn't put you in the best of light perhaps, add these 2 to the book. I thought that maybe you were just blowing off steam and would take this stuff down, but I guess not.

The point when you got mad at me is all because I asked a question on the list. Guess because we had talked about me ordering a guitar that you thought I became your property or something. Keep in mind I had said on my thread that I didn't know who was going to build the damn thing. This is because you had demonstrated through lack of contact that my business wasn't important.

I have tried to be nice and be a man about all of this. I have offered you a public apology, (though I did nothing wrong), along with my unyielding support of your work. However you still come back with this time I'm leaving, and I fired you as a customer, and so on. You can't just let it go even when someone offers apologies to you, the same someone who did nothing wrong other than try to keep you and another builder from fighting with words.

My crimes here are getting involved with you in the first place and thinking you wanted to make guitars for people. Oh, and trying to keep you from harming your reputation with your posts. And yes, before you say it, I know that your list battles aren't my business. Because I thought highly of you as a person and a builder though, I just wanted to try to pull you back and get you to think. I should have kept my mouth shut and let you do what you see as best. But because I like you I didn't want to see you do anything that would harm your reputation. I have had quite a few instruments built for me in my lifetime, and not once did I have a bad experience with a luthier, so I'm not willing to take the blame for this.

So in short people can look through all these threads and decide for themselves how they feel about statements both you and I have made. I will close my communication with you forever with this remark. After rereading all of this and thinking about it once again, for my part you can go to hell. That's about the best way to put it. Also don't ever count on me recommending you to anyone again. I have gotten more than one message from other members who are convinced that you have went crazier than a s**t house rat. That's starting to seem likely to me as well.

Go ahead and reply again, because I won't. I have been to nice to you already.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 16:10:42
Don Dionisio


Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: taking time away (in reply to El Polaco

Enough already. This is a public forum-please deal with this matter
between yourselves.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 16:21:00

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: taking time away (in reply to El Polaco

Shawn - for all you have to say about Stephen, whom you barely know, you are painting quite a picture of yourself with all this pontification. Stephen is clearly not interested in discussing this with you in public (or at all), so please give it up already. Or not, whatever. All this business of trying to have the last word and run his name through the mud, not very classy. You'll get your new guitar from someone else, and life goes on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 16:56:52

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: taking time away (in reply to Don Dionisio

Don Dionisio,

I think you are right.
The thread is now getting way too personal.

Best to lock it now.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 16:57:04
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