Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
I know very little about Conde's and whenever I try to study up on them I get dizzy! I've been wanting a Negra for a while now ( I already have 2 nice blancas). I saw this ad on Craigslist:
I know some of you are pretty knowleadable about Conde's and I was wondering if you might share your thoughts on it? I'm trying to figure out what model it could be (the seller seems confused but thinks it is flamenco), and if it is worth the asking pricing, sort of like preliminary research before I go look at it. Could this be one of those entry level models that are farmed out to other shops and labeled as Conde's, maybe? I emailed the guy and am waiting on a response. But some extra info might help me decide if I should even drive out to look at it since that's a bit of gas money there and I try to avoid the SF Bay Bridge like the plague on weekends.
Thanks!
**EDIT**: The guy emailed me back. He says it never had a tap plate on it, but he's not the original owner either,so who knows if it was removed at some point. I'm thinking it's a classical but he was told it was flamenco by the store owner....is that the nail in the coffin?
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
Anders is selling a negra made from beautiful Brazilian rosewood for about 1k more than that factory Conde and I bet it would blow it away. Andy Culpepper makes negras that I know blow that factory Conde away. Why not also look into Salvador Castillo-his negras are about $2700 and made by hand. Personally, I wouldn't go for it-you won't be satisfied after the short honeymoon.
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
Best bet is probably to ask the seller to make a video so you can see and hear it.
Although still not as good as playing it, It will be better than taking a stab in the dark. Some factory condes I have tried sound and respond well. Others were very bland and not fun to play at all.
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
Considering the price the offer is okay. But it's probably still a crap guitar that's not fun to play. I agree with Don: get a proper handmade guitar, it doesn't have to cost you a fortune.
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
quote:
I'm not an expert on guitars but I've been told it's a Classical Studio Professional.
thats what he says. Honestly, if there was any sign of doubt that a guitar could not be a flamenco guitar, then i wouldnt even look at it. There must be 364 billion other Conde negras out there. I wouldnt even bother with an advertisement that says "flamenco/classical"
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
Thanks guys, for all the opinions. Yea, screw it. I'm going to pass on this. I was looking for a good, semi-used negra at around this price, so that's why it caught me eye. A Conde isn't exactly my first choice, anyway. Thanks again.
Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
Juan, your a better man than I. I would go look at the damn thing just to make sure... Just hop the Bart and say screw the traffic!
Now here's my opinion... With the lack of clarity on how Conde does business, its probably a dud... In my limited experience with inexpensive Condes, the only Conde dud that's worse than some of their cheap flamencos is their classicals. And I'm betting this guitar is and always has been a classical, but couldn't say for sure.
Hell, maybe you should go see it just to make you love those 2 great blancas you already have. Sometimes that's what I need to do. Just push the old guitarra reset button to remind myself how good I got it. LOL
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
Shawn:
The BART doesn't go that far out! But I think you're right; it's a classical. I also can't imagine Conde would sell a Negra w/o tap plates (or maybe they would, I dunno). In any case, I'm pretty much over it by now. Heh! There's nothing wrong with my current guitars, it's just that I'm very curios about a Negra, and the Huipe I bought isn't exactly filling the void. Oh well, I shall continue the hunt!
Tio Esteban,
Check your email, man! :-P I've emailed you twice. School's out for me, so I'm pretty much just picking at my belly button lint these days. I can go whenever but ya gotta let me know.
Posts: 2008
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
Alrighty then. I live very close to the guy who owns the guitar and I also sent an e-mail. He strongly thinks it's a flamenco but i don't think so based on the inconclusive info being served up. As far as only media lunas being any good, I don't buy that. I have a conde that isn't a top of the line guitar and people have always told me it sounded really quite good. I also have a ramirez 1a that is a better guitar than my conde in terms of quality but sounds quite different and is not as good a guitar for dance or rhythm playing in general.
I'm very tempted to go look at the guitar, the guy says he KNOWS it's flamenco because of the size. I'm in the dark about that. Maybe someone can help? I'm a lefty, so I've owned exactly three flamenco guitars in the last thirty years. I don't even get to really check out other players guitars. So, I know little about the details of a guitar. I feel I'd be able to tell a classical from a negra flamenco, but if I'm being honest, I wouldn't be 100%
Can anyone help? Even if it's not the best quality, 1600 for a negra conde is a pretty sweet deal if it sounds and feels good.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)
as per the Conde Catalogue I picked up in 1999 from Felipe V shop, This guitar judged by tie block headstock and center neck strip in the back, is the EC 2 classical guitar made of indian rosewood. This one level above the lowest available model. Here is the list of classicals in the catalogue I have, and each model looks a bit different and easy to distinguish:
AC 23/R top line brazillian AC 23 top line indian AC 23/R.8 top line 8 string brazillian (all those had media luna and filled in tie block) AC 22 (cool N. RIcardo type headstock) Indian Rosewood.
Student models: EC 3 (looks like AF24 flamenco...in fact the photo is of the exact same instrument I believe, no tap plate) EC 2 (same headstock as A24 and A27 flamencos but with filled in tie block). EC 1 (very soft round headstock as per original estesos)
The flamenco guitars most folks are more familiar with: AF25/R brazillian AF25 Indian AF24 indian rosewood, M. Ramirez/Esteso headstock A 26 famous media luna blanca A 27 Blanca with same head as AF24 STudent models: EF 5 N indian rosewood EF 5 Blanca EF 4 Blanca All heads are smooth round like EC1 and tie blocks are rosewood.
AS per catalogue photo I can understand confusion of this instrument being confused for the EC 3 ie AF 24 which IS in fact an A model flamenco.
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to beno)
Check out the guitar Paco plays on the new Flamenco Flamenco DVD. An early Conde (Sobrinos de Domingo Esteso) Note the other (non media luna) headstock. I have a 1960 Sobrinos the same and it is the best guitar I have.
Basically it needs to be signed to be a top model of any kind. The unsigned green label Conde guitars are basically student guitars that are overpriced using the Conde name. As was mentioned, there are great makers on this board who sell amazing guitars for the not much more.
Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to Mark2)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark2 ... the guy says he KNOWS it's flamenco because of the size. I'm in the dark about that. Maybe someone can help?
My assumption would be that the body depth is shallower; less than 3.75" at the top where the body meets with the neck.
My negra's depth at that point is 3.5". All my classicals are 3.75" or more.
For just $400 more, we residents of the San Francisco Bay Area could probably play all the flamencas at The Berkeley Music Exchange and find a guitar with much better qualities and that closely matches our tastes. The guitar would be great but I think the resale value would be poor. They're just not well recognized.
But if I were spending that kind of money, I'd probably up my budget and get one of Tio Esteban's blancas.
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
as per the Conde Catalogue I picked up in 1999 from Felipe V shop, This guitar judged by tie block headstock and center neck strip in the back, is the EC 2 classical guitar made of indian rosewood. This one level above the lowest available model. Here is the list of classicals in the catalogue I have, and each model looks a bit different and easy to distinguish:
AC 23/R top line brazillian AC 23 top line indian AC 23/R.8 top line 8 string brazillian (all those had media luna and filled in tie block) AC 22 (cool N. RIcardo type headstock) Indian Rosewood.
Student models: EC 3 (looks like AF24 flamenco...in fact the photo is of the exact same instrument I believe, no tap plate) EC 2 (same headstock as A24 and A27 flamencos but with filled in tie block). EC 1 (very soft round headstock as per original estesos)
The flamenco guitars most folks are more familiar with: AF25/R brazillian AF25 Indian AF24 indian rosewood, M. Ramirez/Esteso headstock A 26 famous media luna blanca A 27 Blanca with same head as AF24 STudent models: EF 5 N indian rosewood EF 5 Blanca EF 4 Blanca All heads are smooth round like EC1 and tie blocks are rosewood.
AS per catalogue photo I can understand confusion of this instrument being confused for the EC 3 ie AF 24 which IS in fact an A model flamenco.
Wow, Ricardo, thanks a lot man! That's the kind of detailed info I was hoping for! You're the man
RE: Opinion on this Conde negra I mi... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
I think Juan suffers from GAS-
AKA Guitar Acquisition Syndrome.
So THAT'S what that smell was. I was thinking I might have to see a doctor!
GuitarVlog: For some reason I keep having visions of a cedar top Negra. Don't really know why, except that it would be different than what I already have.
Printable Version
and I was wondering if you might share your thoughts on it? I'm trying to figure out what model it could be (the seller seems confused but thinks it is flamenco), and if it is worth the asking pricing, sort of like preliminary research before I go look at it. Could this be one of those entry level models that are farmed out to other shops and labeled as Conde's, maybe? I emailed the guy and am waiting on a response. But some extra info might help me decide if I should even drive out to look at it since that's a bit of gas money there and I try to avoid the SF Bay Bridge like the plague on weekends. 
But I think you're right; it's a classical. I also can't imagine Conde would sell a Negra w/o tap plates (or maybe they would, I dunno). In any case, I'm pretty much over it by now. Heh! There's nothing wrong with my current guitars, it's just that I'm very curios about a Negra, and the Huipe I bought isn't exactly filling the void. Oh well, I shall continue the hunt! 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread