RE: More Conde Hermanos

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: << < 1 [2]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to flyeogh)

1200 is the lowest level where I would sell it. Ok the conde studio guitars are maybe build in nameless factories from nameless guitarmakers in Valencia (I heared). But I didnt hurt my instrument. And its good played. I will use it to fill up a low price as I did for this conde.

All say good guitars are real estate inestment. So the price have to grow with time, no?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 4 2005 16:25:09

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

All say good guitars are real estate inestment. So the price have to grow with time, no?

Actually no. The market dictates the price, as it should.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 4 2005 16:38:01

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

I believe Richard Jernigan said the best guitars keep pace with inflation, but no more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 4 2005 19:11:59

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Guest)

quote:

What do you think would happen if I went to the market and sold tomatoes for 50 cents a kilo, when everyone was asking 1 euro a kilo?

Yeah Anders...but that won't be a problem 50 years from now.
By then the only place that you'll be able to buy a guitar is Wallmart/Asda or Tesco.
So the prices will be in a fixed range, and the luthiers told to provide only guitars of a certain scale length and finish that their customers require.
Every maker will be paid the same minimal amount per unit, so long as it conforms to the Supermarket Global Standards Commision.
Plus it will be essential to include a safety notice that "This Product May Contain Wood.... Keep away from small children who could choke on various parts".
Failure to do so could result in a serious Criminal Offence under USEU Law 2055/100124 section 8.

Don't say I didn't warn you!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 4 2005 20:26:24

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Plus it will be essential to include a safety notice

In my case the warning label should read:

Warning, in the wrong hands this guitar may sound awful and cause permanent ear damage to the unsuspecting listener.

_____________________________

Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 4 2005 20:47:23

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Okay Miguel, I see why you cued me to this discussion.

I have a classical guitar which has beaten inflation by about 8% compounded since 1973. The original owner bought it when the maker had become well known, but it was early in the maker's professional career. When one of the three most famous classical guitarists in the world played one of this maker's instruments for about 20 years in concert and on record, the price went up quickly.

Eight percent is a pretty good return, but you could do better over the long term (15-20 years) in the U.S. stock market, or you could do much better, sometimes short term, in real estate in several countries.

I have a flamenco blanca that may have done about as well. It was bought by a collector in 1982 and never played or even handled. I bought it five years ago and play it regularly. (Still no dings.) It's the best flamenco guitar I've ever played. I've played quite a few. Anyone know how much Arcangel Fernandez was getting for blancas in 1982? Even then all but a very rare few of Arcangel's guitars, both classical and flamenco, were going to Japan because he had just about gone broke trying to sell into the Spanish/European market.

I have a couple of other excellent guitars from very well known makers in Madrid, which have kept pace with inflation, but not much more.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2005 2:25:58

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

has beaten inflation by about 8% compounded since 1973.

Richard presumably this does not take into account insurance, storage space or the risk of loss due to general deterioration?

But I bet you love owning them?

I know of a player/teacher in England who says he collects for his pension. He has over 20 special guitars of all types (electric, classical, etc). The locks and alarms, insurance and humidity controls cost more than my guitars in total. In reality I think he knows it is a poor and high risk investment strategy. He plays and loves them all and that is what is important. I hope he never has to retire

[ Anders be careful. I believe shooting the maker in his prime can give a shortterm price increase

]

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2005 5:25:09

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

Pat,
do you still have that picture? :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2005 5:56:32

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Pat,
do you still have that picture? :)

Which one?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2005 16:08:12

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Patrick)

The one with lots of guitars..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2005 17:34:08

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

I put it on the other Conde thread. Can't put a pic on this one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2005 19:52:14

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

Awesome! :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 5 2005 20:17:05

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

Flyeogh-

I live on a remote island in the Central Pacific. Everyone knows everyone else. Theft from homes is not a problem here. No one except me has a boat capable of long voyages, and no one could get on a plane with one of my guitars without being noticed.

I will probably move back to the continental USA within the next three years, and the problems of storage and insurance have begun to impinge on my mind.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 6 2005 1:17:56

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

I will probably move back to the continental USA within the next three years,

WHY????

If you would like to leave the guitars on the island I will happily go there and look after them. It could be better than all the cost and worry

That is if Miguel has not already offered.

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 6 2005 4:57:36

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

No, I'll leave that to you, Nigel. As much as I would love to play Richard's collection, my wife wouldn't appreciate me leaving even to be the esteemed caretaker of the Jernigan Collection.

:)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 6 2005 18:21:18

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

live on a remote island in the Central Pacific.

Richard,
Really good to have your contribution!
But, actually, here in NE..Scotland it's the same!
Nobody bothers to lock their doors.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 6 2005 20:23:09

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

Here, we lock our doors, have an alarm system that alerts the police if someone breaks in, and have two dogs--a guard golden retriever and an attack corgi.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 6 2005 22:33:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

Anybody on here own or know someone who owns something like an Herman Hauser II (1968)? Like what is a ballpark figure on something like that?

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2005 5:32:10

Guest

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Ricardo)

Hola

I kow someone in Cádiz with an inherited 60s Gerundino (palo santo, cedro). He wants to sell it and brought it along for assessment, thinking it was worth the sort of prices on American internet pages.

It sounds ordinary, has been revarnished inexpertly by brush, has a serious double split of the tapa between golpeador and edge which makes me suspect broken struts, and a tapa sunken between bridge and boca.

It has a simple head design, reminiscent of Ramirez, none of the typical Gerundino stamps into the wood, but a label which appears to be genuine. I think it is an early Gerundino guitar in poor condition. I would not accept it as a free gift. To a professional player it would be useless. It is of value only to a collector who wants to put it in a glass case.

But to the right collector it might be worth a lot.

Putting a price on a guitar is much more difficult than it seems.

Suerte

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2005 13:18:43

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Guest)

quote:

But to the right collector it might be worth a lot.

To me it is like a symbol of a memory. Nothing more than the train number of the Royal Scot (famous steam train) I collected in the 60s at Watford Junction. The noise, the steam, the fire breathing dragon, the rush of air, the power, and then the choking on the smoke as it hung over the platform. Now when I see a dragon like this passive in a museum for me it is like a captured animal - it is very sad. For me it would be the same with a guitar. I would prefer its memory on DVD and not as a lump of broken wood. I have no issue with cremation. Perhaps it would be a fitting end. I'll offer 2 euros to use it as firewood

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2005 14:17:18

Guest

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

Nice cynical post Sean.

Nigel: Are you a trainspotter?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2005 15:04:37

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Nigel: Are you a trainspotter?

No Anders and thats the point. 15 miles from here there is a line with 4 stations and a large number of fiery dragons. They are limited to 20 mph I think but nothing beats the site of the smoke and steam exploding as they pass under that first bridge at Alresford station. I gave up the numbers when I was ten.

Don't get me started. Better that we discuss the footy coming up shortly

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2005 15:15:53

Guest

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Doitsujin)

Do you have any pictures? I like old machines

The little thing is doing fine. Pictures today or tomorrow.

Anders

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2005 8:04:11

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: More Conde Hermanos (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Do you have any pictures? I like old machines

Try http://www.watercressline.co.uk/images/hosan1de.jpg and for the engineshed
http://www.watercressline.co.uk/tw/index.htm

It doesn't matter if it's flamenco or steamtrains or whatever. To see the enthusiasm of people offering their spare time

Who the hell went and spoilt it all by inventing work