RE: More Conde Hermanos (Full Version)

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Doitsujin -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 4 2005 16:25:09)

1200 is the lowest level where I would sell it. Ok the conde studio guitars are maybe build in nameless factories from nameless guitarmakers in Valencia (I heared). But I didnt hurt my instrument. And its good played. I will use it to fill up a low price as I did for this conde.

All say good guitars are real estate inestment. So the price have to grow with time, no?




Patrick -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 4 2005 16:38:01)

quote:

All say good guitars are real estate inestment. So the price have to grow with time, no?


Actually no. The market dictates the price, as it should.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 4 2005 19:11:59)

I believe Richard Jernigan said the best guitars keep pace with inflation, but no more.




Ron.M -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 4 2005 20:26:24)

quote:

What do you think would happen if I went to the market and sold tomatoes for 50 cents a kilo, when everyone was asking 1 euro a kilo?

Yeah Anders...but that won't be a problem 50 years from now.
By then the only place that you'll be able to buy a guitar is Wallmart/Asda or Tesco.
So the prices will be in a fixed range, and the luthiers told to provide only guitars of a certain scale length and finish that their customers require.
Every maker will be paid the same minimal amount per unit, so long as it conforms to the Supermarket Global Standards Commision.
Plus it will be essential to include a safety notice that "This Product May Contain Wood.... Keep away from small children who could choke on various parts".
Failure to do so could result in a serious Criminal Offence under USEU Law 2055/100124 section 8.

Don't say I didn't warn you! [:D][:D][:D]

cheers

Ron




gshaviv -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 4 2005 20:47:23)

quote:

Plus it will be essential to include a safety notice


In my case the warning label should read:

Warning, in the wrong hands this guitar may sound awful and cause permanent ear damage to the unsuspecting listener.




Richard Jernigan -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 5 2005 2:25:58)

Okay Miguel, I see why you cued me to this discussion.

I have a classical guitar which has beaten inflation by about 8% compounded since 1973. The original owner bought it when the maker had become well known, but it was early in the maker's professional career. When one of the three most famous classical guitarists in the world played one of this maker's instruments for about 20 years in concert and on record, the price went up quickly.

Eight percent is a pretty good return, but you could do better over the long term (15-20 years) in the U.S. stock market, or you could do much better, sometimes short term, in real estate in several countries.

I have a flamenco blanca that may have done about as well. It was bought by a collector in 1982 and never played or even handled. I bought it five years ago and play it regularly. (Still no dings.) It's the best flamenco guitar I've ever played. I've played quite a few. Anyone know how much Arcangel Fernandez was getting for blancas in 1982? Even then all but a very rare few of Arcangel's guitars, both classical and flamenco, were going to Japan because he had just about gone broke trying to sell into the Spanish/European market.

I have a couple of other excellent guitars from very well known makers in Madrid, which have kept pace with inflation, but not much more.

RNJ




flyeogh -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 5 2005 5:25:09)

quote:

has beaten inflation by about 8% compounded since 1973.


Richard presumably this does not take into account insurance, storage space or the risk of loss due to general deterioration?[:(] But I bet you love owning them?[:D]

I know of a player/teacher in England who says he collects for his pension. He has over 20 special guitars of all types (electric, classical, etc). The locks and alarms, insurance and humidity controls cost more than my guitars in total. In reality I think he knows it is a poor and high risk investment strategy. He plays and loves them all and that is what is important. I hope he never has to retire[8|]

[ Anders be careful. I believe shooting the maker in his prime can give a shortterm price increase[:D]]




Miguel de Maria -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 5 2005 5:56:32)

Pat,
do you still have that picture? :)




Patrick -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 5 2005 16:08:12)

quote:

Pat,
do you still have that picture? :)


Which one?




Miguel de Maria -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 5 2005 17:34:08)

The one with lots of guitars..




Patrick -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 5 2005 19:52:14)

I put it on the other Conde thread. Can't put a pic on this one.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 5 2005 20:17:05)

Awesome! :)




Richard Jernigan -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 6 2005 1:17:56)

Flyeogh-

I live on a remote island in the Central Pacific. Everyone knows everyone else. Theft from homes is not a problem here. No one except me has a boat capable of long voyages, and no one could get on a plane with one of my guitars without being noticed.

I will probably move back to the continental USA within the next three years, and the problems of storage and insurance have begun to impinge on my mind.

RNJ




flyeogh -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 6 2005 4:57:36)

quote:

I will probably move back to the continental USA within the next three years,
WHY????

If you would like to leave the guitars on the island I will happily go there and look after them. It could be better than all the cost and worry [:D][:D][:D] That is if Miguel has not already offered.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 6 2005 18:21:18)

No, I'll leave that to you, Nigel. As much as I would love to play Richard's collection, my wife wouldn't appreciate me leaving even to be the esteemed caretaker of the Jernigan Collection.

:)




Ron.M -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 6 2005 20:23:09)

quote:

live on a remote island in the Central Pacific.

Richard,
Really good to have your contribution!
But, actually, here in NE..Scotland it's the same!
Nobody bothers to lock their doors.

cheers

Ron




Miguel de Maria -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 6 2005 22:33:34)

Here, we lock our doors, have an alarm system that alerts the police if someone breaks in, and have two dogs--a guard golden retriever and an attack corgi.




Ricardo -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 16 2005 5:32:10)

Anybody on here own or know someone who owns something like an Herman Hauser II (1968)? Like what is a ballpark figure on something like that?

Ricardo




Guest -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 16 2005 13:18:43)

Hola

I kow someone in Cádiz with an inherited 60s Gerundino (palo santo, cedro). He wants to sell it and brought it along for assessment, thinking it was worth the sort of prices on American internet pages.

It sounds ordinary, has been revarnished inexpertly by brush, has a serious double split of the tapa between golpeador and edge which makes me suspect broken struts, and a tapa sunken between bridge and boca.

It has a simple head design, reminiscent of Ramirez, none of the typical Gerundino stamps into the wood, but a label which appears to be genuine. I think it is an early Gerundino guitar in poor condition. I would not accept it as a free gift. To a professional player it would be useless. It is of value only to a collector who wants to put it in a glass case.

But to the right collector it might be worth a lot.

Putting a price on a guitar is much more difficult than it seems.

Suerte

Sean




flyeogh -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 16 2005 14:17:18)

quote:

But to the right collector it might be worth a lot.


To me it is like a symbol of a memory. Nothing more than the train number of the Royal Scot (famous steam train) I collected in the 60s at Watford Junction. The noise, the steam, the fire breathing dragon, the rush of air, the power, and then the choking on the smoke as it hung over the platform. Now when I see a dragon like this passive in a museum for me it is like a captured animal - it is very sad. For me it would be the same with a guitar. I would prefer its memory on DVD and not as a lump of broken wood. I have no issue with cremation. Perhaps it would be a fitting end. I'll offer 2 euros to use it as firewood[8|]




Guest -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 16 2005 15:04:37)

Nice cynical post Sean. [;)]

Nigel: Are you a trainspotter?[8D]




flyeogh -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 16 2005 15:15:53)

quote:

Nigel: Are you a trainspotter?


No Anders and thats the point. 15 miles from here there is a line with 4 stations and a large number of fiery dragons. They are limited to 20 mph I think but nothing beats the site of the smoke and steam exploding as they pass under that first bridge at Alresford station. I gave up the numbers when I was ten. [:D]

Don't get me started. Better that we discuss the footy coming up shortly[:D]




Guest -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 17 2005 8:04:11)

Do you have any pictures? I like old machines[8D]

The little thing is doing fine. Pictures today or tomorrow.

Anders




flyeogh -> RE: More Conde Hermanos (Aug. 17 2005 9:12:52)

quote:

Do you have any pictures? I like old machines


Try http://www.watercressline.co.uk/images/hosan1de.jpg and for the engineshed
http://www.watercressline.co.uk/tw/index.htm

It doesn't matter if it's flamenco or steamtrains or whatever. To see the enthusiasm of people offering their spare time[:D] Who the hell went and spoilt it all by inventing work[:o] talking of which --- Hasta pronto




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