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Grisha

 

Posts: 1251
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Thanks, man! I am so glad your hand got better! And I think, you should write your own music, because God gave you talent!

Thanks, Kalo!

Now I am off to practicing the Aranjuez I have to play tomorrow.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2012 19:26:53
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Grisha, I would suggest dedicating a small portion of your practice time to just improvising and having fun without thought of technique. Just use what technique comes naturally. When you play concerts, audiences come to see you play with technical expertise, so give them that and if you feel a little empty afterwards, then in your own privacy play whatever you feel that gives you relief of this emptiness and someday maybe the two will come together. The problem with emotion as it relates to flamenco is everyone feels it different and has different opinions if they felt the right emotion for a certain palo. Rules for compas were established by the flamencos of old, but playing from the heart so to speak was an individual thing and no rules or even guidelines can be established. It is a matter of perception. Everyone has different reference points in history that they identify with certain palos. Compas in itself encompasses a certain amount of emotion. No one can ever know what emotion a solo flamenco guitarist is feeling, except the player. A listener may never hear a difference or if they do may not like it or may love it. One may say it was hot and the other cold. Another point is when you are overfilled with emotion, you say you make technical mistakes. Maybe they aren't mistakes, you just feel they are because you have practiced it one way and then when expressing emotion you are feeling, it comes out another. Were they really mistakes in technique, or just another way of playing?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2012 20:00:11
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Grisha - when you say "..my slow numbers were close to the most musical I have ever played. But during practice I can't touch that. " are you suggesting that that problem is that *during practice* you aren't able to tap into the emotions, but they happen on stage?

Because I would think that is very normal for a player of your level; that practice becomes maintenance, and when you step on stage, the emotions and musicality etc all come back.

Also: a recent study just came out regarding the creative part of the brain. Someone wrote a book..they had a thing on NPR. Can't remember the book title or author - sorry.

Anyway, they gave college students enough alcohol to drink that they couldn't drive a car, yet they scored 30% higher on creative reasoning type tests then their sober counter parts. The book is really about the fact that we are at our most creative when we're not trying to be. It's just how the brain is wired. But in our culture, when we're trying to solve a problem, we drink coffee and chain ourselves to our desk and pull an all-nighter. But then the answer comes when we're spacing out in the shower the next day.

Maybe you're just trying too hard?

Anyway, best of luck. I think we're all certain this is a minor blip on your journey. Fact is, you have a special special set of skills and abilities that makes you a very rare individual. What you are experiencing is certainly normal, but in the specific way that you are experiencing it is probably best relatable to others with your talents. Are you familiar with Julian Lage? Another prodigy. He spent a lot of time with Alexander Technique people. Says it helped him a lot. Might be cool to reach out to him. He's a very kind soul and I think you would have much in common to talk about. You can find him on FaceBook

Saludos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2012 20:01:35
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 847
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

I can't speak about playing guitar at your level Grisha, but for some things
in life. Just walk away from it for a period of some months. This works for me
at times for many things in life. Perhaps you have worked too hard, and for
too long. Maybe you need a good long break.

Regards,
Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2012 20:49:24
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1251
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

I will have a chance to take a long break from playing this summer. I will be writing my doctoral thesis.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2012 21:13:05
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 847
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Great, what the subject of your thesis?

Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 2:32:06
 
rombsix

Posts: 7447
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

quote:

I will have a chance to take a long break from playing this summer. I will be writing my doctoral thesis.


Juan Gomez, now is your chance to overthrow Grisha's fast picado! If he spends 2 months not playing, and you spend 2 months doing at least 6 hours of picado daily, then by Jove, I think we'll be onto something!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 8:48:12
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 404
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to ToddK

quote:

You should do what your heart tells you to do. I think you are doing absolutely
wonderfully at what you're doing now.
I always felt like Paco was tortured by the expectation of his fans. But he
never had to be.
You dont have to be either. Play what you want. Im a huge fan of yours, and i just want to see you doing what you love, wether its writing your own stuff,
or playing a Paco Bulerias.

Just do your thing man. You are one of the best players on the planet right now.
The world is yours...




Grisha, am I nobody to give you advise, ....as Todd, I am "a huge fan of yours"!!....so I find his words the right words!

ciao,
giambattista
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 11:15:27
 
Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Hey I'll second what gbv1158 said about what todd said .

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Peace.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 11:43:27
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Grisha, I have had the same experience before. I found 2 things that really helped:
1- taking a break and coming back to play what I really love to play,and play my very own stuff and compose my own stuff. it does not have to be technically complex, take something technically simple but very nice , such as the Diego del Gastor and the Moron style stuff, very nice with lots of aire.
the biggest pleasure and emotions I have ever had in flamenco, is when I feel the presence of the duende when practicing, and that only happened 5 or 6 times so far.the greatest feeling in the world

2- I say to myself in everything in life, not just flamenco, I will never please everyone,so I will do what I like to do, I do not care what people think. you have to remember that even if you play the hardest stuff from Paco, there will be someone in the audience who will just not like the piece or is bored from hearing this piece or something, so no matter what one does, one will never please everyone! luckily, I think NO BODY needs to do that, not even Paco! JUST DO WHAT YOU LOVE ! people will love it when you do it for yourself, when you enjoy and love what you are doing, and not just playing like a machine. who cares about the technicality ? does not need to be technically perfect.

and especially for you, you have to remember that people have deep respect and admiration to you Grisha, so relax and do what you love

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 12:14:46
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2836
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to rombsix

quote:

Juan Gomez, now is your chance to overthrow Grisha's fast picado! If he spends 2 months not playing, and you spend 2 months doing at least 6 hours of picado daily, then by Jove, I think we'll be onto something!


Ramzi! What is this turning out to be man, a John Wesley Hardin versus Wild Billy Hickok showdown? Wait til you hear me play some picado after practicing 30 minutes with the sponge. jk....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 15:33:13
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1251
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Hold on, that thesis can wait!

I will be doing my own transcription of Falla's 7 Spanish Songs that will be much closer to flamenco than the 2 existing versions (e.g. rasgueados instead of arpeggios at the beginning of Jota) and then I will write an extensive accompanying text. Doesn't sound too bad at this point, but who knows...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 15:39:14
 
flamencosolea200

 

Posts: 2
Joined: May 5 2012
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

very good idea grisha! when they are available?
would also like to see from a recent concert a video..!

if you want them to share with us ...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 17:43:41
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

You might just be tired/momentarily burnt out. :)

One way of putting emotion in your music is to create a story and associate it with the piece. You can use highly charged events from your life, literature,poetry, art, or create your own. Every time you play the music, bring the story to mind and let it merge with the music and guide you. It's like your own little opera. It's fun!

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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ


Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 19:38:39
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

AFAIK, there is no way to find out whether someone playing a piece is being emotional at that point in time. Hence i dont care whether the player really has emotions or not. But everybody can relate to whether they feel something having an emotional effect on them. And yes, just like the question of what is flamenco, there seems to be a sort of agreement on certain players being more or less emotional. You cannot deny the empirical fact that too much technicality p*sses many people off in terms of perceiving a performance as emotional. But, unlike others, i dont see a reason to dislike that fact. It is upon everybody to accept differences in tastes. I mean if there would be a formula to measure emotionality of a piece, then this would be to write here. But since there is none, we have to live with the above statement. (Sorry i totally lost my point here... i felt i had an important conclusion to make, i had it already finished, but it slipped away somehow during writing.)

Ah, one interesting comparison. Take language for example. Some people speak as if they have no emotions. Type some letters in a computer program for "auto reading" and you will see, that it sounds very "inhuman". The software and algorithm gets better and actually the results nowadays are noticeably better. So maybe there is a formula to emotional playing to, just like there seems to be one for emotional language.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2012 9:51:56
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to XXX

Emotion within interpretation of music is always honest. The moment is always reflected truthfully. Trying to disguise and control emotion or technique only reveals another perfect truth.

Practicing technique tends to smooth everything out and gives more control of our technical intention. So for that reason I think it's worth it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2012 10:32:14
 
rombsix

Posts: 7447
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to jg7238

quote:

Wait til you hear me play some picado after practicing 30 minutes with the sponge.


That sponge must be a good teacher. Send me the sponge by FedEx.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2012 11:00:52
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1251
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Here is a product of a few hours. Do you think it has any merit?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 3:20:09
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 3:45:35
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1251
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Thank you! It's funny how sometimes you can play this stuff naturally and have some fun with it, but as soon as the camera is rolling you lock up and go into survival mode instead.

Sorry for the camera microphone. Wish I had another option.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 3:56:25
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

quote:

Do you think it has any merit?


are you kidding? YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 4:06:31
 
rombsix

Posts: 7447
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Yeah, that's great Grisha. First 10 seconds remind me of Riqueni's famous intro por fandango. The idea though is that what you compose does not have to always be super super complicated and advanced. As long as you can identify with it, and you compose a lot of things, in no time, you'll feel a lot when you start playing your own material. I compose a lot of simple stuff, but with time and with playing it over and over, it is growing on me quite a bit. Cheers!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 4:08:38

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

quote:

Thank you! It's funny how sometimes you can play this stuff naturally and have some fun with it, but as soon as the camera is rolling you lock up and go into survival mode instead.


That means your human, thank god. haha

That fragment you played was great!! Hard to believe you're doubting your
compositional abilities.
Maybe the hardest thing about writing is the ability to not judge what you're
writing, just let it come out. I always hate everything i write. I think we're all a bit like that.

All i can say is, please come to Maryland and let my produce your record!!
I promise there will be no flute or harmonica! LOL
TK

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 4:10:10
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1251
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Thanks, guys! I can never tell if it's good or not, so feedback is appreciated.

Ramzi, yes it does remind me of Riqueni's fandango. However, when I started composing I had but a rhythmical idea, so those harmonies came later. They just wanted to sound like this although I tried to do something else at the beginning. And by the way, for some reason everything I compose is pretty damn hard to play, although sounds simple. I think this is my compositional shortcoming.

Todd, that would be really great! But how can I survive without a harmonica? It just has to be there!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 4:18:59
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

quote:

Here is a product of a few hours. Do you think it has any merit?


With a few alterations you could turn this into two coplas of a modern sevillanas. I think it would work well. Although it sounds cool as it is as well.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 4:29:26
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

brilliant topic and comments..

its one of those things I think we all felt regardless of our levels but haven't really put it in words....i don't have any answers just a theory saying pretty much the same thing u saying..



its so true..

When one feels sharp with technique due to lots of practice or playing it becomes the focus...tries to impress, entertain (call it whatever you will) mostly through that aspect or if not completely it becomes a huge part of it....
When one dosent particularly feel in shape due to lack of time for practice...well all they have to hang on to is the musicality, the feel, the atmosphere etc..


I feel better playing when i have done a lot of playing and everything i try for works, and my fingers just find and do everything naturally and with no effort or fear... but i sound more musical when i don't feel as confident technically..or at least i think i do because i am not expecting much from myself...


There is no real proof that this isn't just something more to do with the way we feel ...rather than concrete facts....take our feelings out of the equation...for all we know we might sound exactly the same to a neutral ear.

When out of shape technically ...our expectation is way less of ourselfs (so anything is a bonus, u got nowhere to go but up) when in shape we have much greater expectations of ourselfs and perhaps its eazyer to feel unsatisfied..


and on the other side of the coin

who knows...maybe over technique in a piece could be a musicality killer..i don't know...the skill is to have it without it trying to influence too much the story telling

but that's impossible when you are playing something where the technique is half of the story or the attraction...like in your case Paco's fandangos or whatever.. i never looked at that piece expecting melodic gratification, technique showcasing is a huge part of it, imo...those picado runs are not there to say "look how humble i am about my technique, pay attention only to the melody and the story"

i for one never found you non musical, ...my attention might have been pulled away from the melody at times by your skill but again that was as much part of the script as the melody... in your case its impossible to separate the skill from the melody i think...

someone else mentioned this earlier, i also find you extremely musical when u are doing your stuff and experimenting with your musical ideas, cause i know for sure its you...

like that farucca u did for me years ago...still one of the most musical piece of music i have EVER heard...in fact i might upload it here, nothing fancy but so beautifully spaced and speaks volumes..but also dont get me wrong...i love it when u do the technical stuff too!!

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 7:41:52
 
flamencosolea200

 

Posts: 2
Joined: May 5 2012
 

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Very good idea! continued grisha!
I have a question: You use the guitar support ErgoPlay "Professional" or ErgoPlay "Tappert"??

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 7:55:33
 
Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

Your idea is good and it is clear you feel emotion from it . I also feel your compositional freedom is locked by trying to stay within flamenco .

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Peace.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 12:33:33
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 404
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to Grisha

quote:

Do you think it has any merit?


A N Y ??!! merit??

You MUST be kidding!........if this is the result of "a few hours"! I can't immagine what the result would be after "a few days"!.... a SYMPHONY ??!!

Grisha : you are fantastic!!!

ciao,
giambattista
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 12:51:38
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 404
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Practice and Musicality (in reply to gbv1158

Grisha,
......you let me come to mind the words of a professor of mine at the University (thirty years agò!), about art (sculpture in particular referred to Michelangelo).... more or less he used to say "Art always requires a technique and the technique involves knowing how to use the tools; in art there is the principle of creation and to make this happen, we must acquire the technique and tools. This way we may carve a block of marble without having to worry about how to handle the right chisel in our hand .... but beating up on it "to bring out" the shape which stands first in ourself! "

I believe that you can play the guitar thinking about "the music" wich is in you!.... without thinking about technique or accuracy! ... that there you have it! without any effort!

ciao
giambattista
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2012 13:23:38
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