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Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

Spanish Language in Andalusia 

Perhaps someone could help me out with this.

I am finally getting serious about learning Spanish, and I was just wondering if Latin American Spanish is closer to the type spoken in Andalusia, or whether to get the Spain version of programs such as Fluenz etc.

Or does it matter at all? I am thinking of taking a course this summer, but it would be nice to get started asap!

Thanks!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 23:26:10
 
Pingaloka

Posts: 42
Joined: Jun. 9 2011
From: Granada, España

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

Hello Harry. Written spanish is the same all over the world as the rules concern spanish language as a whole. Spoken spanish is another issue.
You will find differences between the spanish spoken in Latin America and the one spoken in Spain. You will find differences at all levels. By that I mean that inside Latin America a Mexican for example will use different expressions than an Argentinian. Inside the same country, for example, in Spain, you will find differences between a guy from Madrid and a guy from Seville. And inside a region from Spain, like Andalucia, you will also find differences between how the speak in the West and how they speak in the East. How people from the coast speak and how people from the interior speak.

What I'm trying to point out is that gramma and written spanish is one thing and then spoken reality another...I don't think it really matters what you choose, until you come to Andalucia and start listening how people speak in the streets, in the bars, etc you wont get familar with the accent. Even spanish people that come from the north have some times difficulty understunding a very regional andalucian strong accent.

The closest accent to the Latin American spanish that we have in Spain is the one they speak in the Canary Islands, it is very similar to how they speak in Venezuela.
Personally I don't think that the spanish spoken in Andalucia is similar to the one in Latin America generally speaking. You may find it a bit more similar than how people from the North of Spain speak, definately, but is not that similar from my point of view.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 1:10:05
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Pingaloka

quote:

You may find it a bit more similar than how people from the North of Spain speak, definately, but is not that similar from my point of view.



Thanks very much for your advice!
this is basically what I was wondering because I am worried that the Spain Spanish softwares will actually be less close to the Spanish spoken in Andalusia than the Latin American Spanish softwares. I am inclined based on your thoughts to get the Latin American software.

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 12:47:07
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

As to the spanish language it is divided up into different "languages the main one being ( what you need ) Castellano, this is used all over latin america. Andalu" is a regional dialect of Castellano , Everyone will understand this as many programs on TV are from South America anyway , mainly Telenovelas or Mexican stuff like "El Chavo del ocho " ..etc...
As to dialects there are many ,, just consider them as they are i your English world , so you have english spoken in the USA is a bit different to , Australia and New zealand , or Canada..also South Africa, and within England there are the dialects of different cities , north south , Scotland , Wales etc..

But communication is clear , I suppose ..
Anyway just stick to Castellano and you will be fine .

Se aprende Hablar , Hablando ..( One learns to speak , Speaking.)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 13:06:10
 
Estevan

Posts: 1934
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

Harry, you should also consider that not everyone you meet over there will be speaking heavy Andalú dialect. Also you may want to go to Madrid where lots of flamencos live and perform, and which is a great place in its own right.

From my own small experience of travelling in South America and Spain, I definitely recommend that - for your purposes - you study Spanish Spanish. Of course, as Pingaloka says, in different parts of Spain itself you will find different expressions for the same thing, but the differences (generally speaking) are greater between Spain and Latin America, so if you learn the Spanish style there will be less confusion and less to re-learn. It's not just a question of different vocabulary for a lot of ordinary items, but also an element of grammar. That is, the second person plural verb form is just not used in Latin America, but it is very common in Spain so it would make life easier for you if you learned it right from the start.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 16:30:48
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3456
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

Harry,

You definitely want to learn Spanish that is spoken in Spain. There is not only a large difference between Spanish spoken in Spain and that spoken in Latin America, there is a large difference in Spanish spoken in different Latin American countries. For example, Spanish spoken in Argentina has different expressions, and a very different pronunciation in some cases, than that spoken in Colombia. Stick to Spanish as spoken in Spain and you will be just fine.

Cheers,

Bill

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And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 16:58:48
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

I graduated from the university with a 3 years Spanish degree. I´ve lived in Andalucia almost 11 years and my wife is Spanish.

In Andalucian villages, the accent is so strong that its very often very difficult for me to understand. They speak very fast and articulate very poor. My wife is from north Spain but she has lived in Andalucia 30 years, so she understands, but when her brothers or sisters from north Spain come to visit us, they have problems with understanding the locals.

When in noisy environments, things get worse and the fact that andalucians have a tendency to speak everyone at the same time and they are also very noisy, doesnt help understanding.

For me, even though I´ve lived here for such a long time, its 10 times easyer to understand most Latinamerican accents except maybe argentino and when they speak slang.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 19:23:44
 
Estevan

Posts: 1934
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

For me, even though I´ve lived here for such a long time, its 10 times easyer to understand most Latinamerican accents

Y shileno, weón - que pensai pu?


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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 19:50:15
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

más facil que Andalou

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 20:55:43
 
Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

Just forget that you ever learned consonants and you'll be fine.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 0:18:55
 
Estevan

Posts: 1934
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Adam

quote:

Just forget that you ever learned consonants and you'll be fine.



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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 16:15:30
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

There is a complete online course in Andaluz Spanish starting here...

Part 1



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 16:29:14
 
Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Ron.M

quote:


There is a complete online course in Andaluz Spanish starting here...


¡Curso dandalú!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 16:34:15
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Adam

Ostias compadre!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 16:51:18
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1798
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

Yes, Latin American Spanish is quite a bit different from national Spanish, and you should definitely learn the latter if your purpose is to further your flamenco studies.

Destinos

In the US there is an excellent full-length video course that includes an exploration of the different national Spanish dialects: it's called Destinos. It's shown on Public Television occasionally, but my wife and I got it from the library and worked through it. It takes the form of a soap opera, starting with very simple Spanish and working up from there.

It seems to be hard to find on DVD now, although Amazon US lists it on VHS tape:

http://www.amazon.com/Destinos-Introduction-Spanish-Lessons-Tapes/dp/B000P54EVQ/ref=sr_1_74?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1329069697&sr=1-74

You might check your own library.

Learning mode

Another point is that you should figure out your own best learning mode: is it analytical or imitative, i.e. do you learn best by having the grammar and vocabulary explained to you, and then trying to synthesise them into sentences? Or do you prefer immersion and imitation? Depending on what your preference is, some courses may be wrong for you.

If you’re analytically inclined like me, I recommend the original version of Teach Yourself Spanish by N. Scarlyn Wilson, which you can pick up for a penny plus postage

http://www.amazon.ca/Teach-Yourself-Spanish-Scarlyn-Wilson/dp/0340058196/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329070165&sr=1-1.

Andalusian Spanish

A couple of obvious points:

• Almost nobody uses the Castillian lisp taught in foreign schools; you’ll feel a fool saying "Paco de Loo-thee-a" when everyone else is saying "Loo-see-a". So it’s best to drop that from the start.

• Speaking of dropping things: Andalusians are famous (as has been mentioned) for dropping consonants; so that (for instance) "Cádiz" becomes "Cai". It takes time to adjust to this.

Hope this helps.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 17:30:36
 
Estevan

Posts: 1934
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

Almost nobody uses the Castillian lisp taught in foreign schools; you’ll feel a fool saying "Paco de Loo-thee-a" when everyone else is saying "Loo-see-a". So it’s best to drop that from the start.


This, as a generalization for Andalucía, is simply not true.

There are areas where the "th" pronunciation is used, and others where it isn't. One of the characteristics of broad Andalú - as exemplified in the excellent and hilarious Curso d'Andalú video above - is the tendency to use the "th" sound not only for 'z' and 'ci/ce', but for 's' as well (in those positions - initially or between vowels - where it actually is pronounced rather than aspirated or dropped altogether).

There are websites that propose and use an Andalú "orthography" using "z" for the "th" sound, e.g:
http://andalu.wikia.com/wiki/Portada

But this one is more useful (although the video isn't):

How to Speak Like an Andalusian

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 18:55:22
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Estevan

"You’ll have no problem communicating even if you speak Spanish with a heavy Texas accent! ;)"

Kin ah git sum extry hepp wizz this thang?

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 19:07:56
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

Paul, What you describe is called seseo. Only using s sounds and no lisping (th). Just like in Latin American Spanish. Its typical for Sevilla and its province. But pretty rare elsewhere in Andalucia.

On the other hand you can find a lot ceceo, only using lisping (th) in s, c and z. This is typical of Cadiz and its province but can be found everywhere in Andalucai especially in villages.
The guy in the video is typical ceceo.

Also final S is not pronounced, but its not cut away totally instead its replaced by an expiration so that Andrés becomes more or less Andréh. Cosas > cosah, España > Ehpaña

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 19:13:09
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Ron.M

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 19:21:13
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3415
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

"You’ll have no problem communicating even if you speak Spanish with a heavy Texas accent! ;)"

Kin ah git sum extry hepp wizz this thang?

cheers,

Ron


Whut th' hail er you tawkin' about? Scotchmen cain't even tawk Inglish raht!

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 21:37:26
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

Its typical for Sevilla and its province. But pretty rare elsewhere in Andalucia.

Its typical in a lots of Andalucia , parts like Cordoba and Jaen although in Jaen they dont eat the last "s" as much .,
and another common thing is that almost everything is diminutive..Cerveza,(Ser-bay-sa) is Cervezita , cañita , tubito, and many many things...cositas,,,

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 21:51:29
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1798
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Estevan

quote:

This, as a generalization for Andalucía, is simply not true.


Mea culpa: I guess I over-generalised from my own experience.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 22:04:51
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1798
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

Also final S is not pronounced, but its not cut away totally instead its replaced by an expiration so that Andrés becomes more or less Andréh.


Yes, in Córdoba I’ve noticed that this can happen to internal S as well, so that (for example) "vestia" becomes "vehtia".

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 22:07:45
 
affect

 

Posts: 39
Joined: Mar. 17 2009
 

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

Harry:

I'm a big fan of learning a language in its most original accent/context (ie, French from France, Spanish from Spain, English from England). Unless, of course, you can't help it (like in how we speak a Canadian English dialect). I recently dusted off a Spain Spanish course pack I bought a few years back, published by Oxford. I would have said let us get together and study/practice, but we haven't even found the time to get together to practice Flamenco, so fat chance!

I should mention that meetup.com has a local Spanish language group that meet regularly for practice and outings. I'm sure there are ones in all major cities that one can use as a good auxiliary resource.

¡Vivan los flamencos que no hablan bien el español!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2012 5:48:07
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

quote:


¡Vivan los flamencos que no hablan bien el español!


Si, Vivan los guiris.. ¡ A tomar por culo !

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2012 7:14:44
 
Tomrocker

Posts: 404
Joined: Apr. 18 2010
From: Italy

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:


Si, Vivan los guiris.. ¡ A tomar por culo !




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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2012 14:00:56
 
Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009
 

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Harry

You can watch the Destinos series free here:

http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2012 19:46:48
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Spanish Language in Andalusia (in reply to Ron.M

thats awesome! thanks for sharing

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2012 23:20:56
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