Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira and Philip John Lee who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Vicente Amigo live in London...   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
LondonFlamencoJazz

 

Posts: 17
Joined: Feb. 8 2012
 

Vicente Amigo live in London... 

I've been listening to Vicente albums for a few years, my favourite being "Vivencias Imaginadas". So of course I was really looking forward to seeing him play at the Flamenco Festival in Sadlers Wells, London.

It was great to see him play, especially his flawless technique... but I must say, parts of the concert were quite boring- I think that's down to several factors, many out of his control.

i) The first thing that struck me was, an album of that guitar heavy sound with jazz vibes in the background (and the occassional vocal) sounds great, you can really immerse yourself in that sound. A live gig on the other hand is different, you expect the performance to grab your attention in a different way, and I personally like a variety of sounds to keep my interest going... I think that's why the Paco de Lucia live sound works well, you have flute/saxophone or sometimes harmonica to take you away from the guitar for a bit... and of course the strength of the melodies and arrangement is important. I could feel the audience around me falling asleep in parts of the 90 minute performance... it just felt like... too much guitar!!

ii) The second thing that comes to mind is the relationship between performer and audience. You can tell Vicente is shy at nature (as many great instrumentalists are... e.g. Paco!) so you need someone on stage to grab the audience's attention, communicate to them. To be honest, the venue itself, Sadlers Wells, did a terrible job in this respect- there was no announcement of Vicente's arrival, there was no statement such as "we welcome to London's Flamenco Festival..." etc... nothing. The poor guy was forced to try to say a few words in English at the beginning, "I am happy to play for you tonight" which was greatly appreciated. The production team were very neglectful in my opinion, they didn't change the lighting or spotlights throughout the entire gig (just the backdrop occasionally) so there was constantly a bright light on Vicente's face even when the focus was bass, cante or baile. That was tiring to watch, and I'm sure, tiring for his eyes!!

iii) I don't know if the theatre environment itself works well with this type of music, it's a bit like jazz, you want that intimate club, people-sitting-at-tables environment, that helps the rapport, you get natural feedback from the audience.

iv) The audience itself were predominantly English middle-aged people, many of which I would say were just coming to see "something at the festival", not really familiar with this type of flamenco fusion, and I guess, many were expecting lots of dance and singing. Of course in that case they should find out about an artist before they go and see him, but I'm just creating the dynamic, the atmosphere that made the concert.

v) The last point I'd make is that the band looked uncomfortable on stage at times. I play live quite a lot myself and I'm used to seeing expressions on musicians faces, and at times, the bassist looked like he wasn't sure what was going on and a couple of the others looked uneasy. This atmosphere won't have been helped by the dancer's mic stand collapsing early in the gig, and the neglectful Sadlers Wells team doing nothing (was there anyone there?!) so the cajon player went over to help him.

Ok I'll stopped moaning now, I've seen Paco and Vicente live and I feel lucky!! A suggestion: perhaps Londonwise, artists like these could try playing at clubs like Ronnie Scotts or Pizza Express Dean Street, established intimate venues... I reckon it'd go down a storm!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 9:13:08
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

Good, well-written and informative post there LondonFlamencoJazz!

Thanks

Welcome to ForoFlamenco!

cheers,

Ron

PS: I've given up on going to "big" concerts these days...all the travelling, the waiting around, the sound, the hassle of getting a cup of coffee or a drink afterwards as the bars and cafes are full and then the hassle of getting home.
Much prefer a DVD where I can relax with a beer, watch real good close-ups and good sound, can pause it to go for a pee etc, backtrack and replay any particularly interesting guitar bits, then when I'm finished, have a cup of tea and off to bed without facing a long journey home with all the drunk yobbos on the bus or train.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 11:21:00
 
Argaith

Posts: 465
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

We got together with some other Foro members after the show and had no problem finding a pub nearby

I personally enjoyed the show although a bit too modern for my taste. The compositions were amazing and Vincente's performance was excellent.

@LondonFlamencoJazz - Flamenco is meant to be a bit rough around the edges (as I'm sure you know). I personally wasn't bothered about the dangling microphone or light, etc. I could do without the bass guitar though ).

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 12:13:37
 
LondonFlamencoJazz

 

Posts: 17
Joined: Feb. 8 2012
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to Argaith

Yeah, I like bass guitar in general but the problem is, when you introduce it to a sound, you can't take it away easily without it sounding like something is missing! I agree, the bass was too present on that gig...

I'm glad you enjoyed the gig... I think I, like Ron, seem to like the comfort of the recorded album, where nothing can go wrong, noone can annoy you in the next seat!! I think I need to stop controlling my environment (note to shrink!) :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 12:28:47
 
orsonw

Posts: 1453
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

I find most solo guitar shows a bit boring except Gerardo Nunez, he's playing on Monday. I recommend him and it's not sold out completely yet. He communicates and there is energy in his performance as well as brilliant technique/music, he always has good singers with him too. Judging by your name 'Londonflamencojazz' I don't know if you like flamenco or are more into guitar?

On a side note I found Manuela Carrasco great last night. Jondo and flamenco puro from the start. High level art- great guitarists (Joaquin Amador I think? but looking older?), great singers, she was of course profound and flamenco as she always is, also I especially enjoyed Antonio el choro.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 13:52:36
 
Argaith

Posts: 465
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

quote:

except Gerardo Nunez

I absolutely agree.

Saw him last time he came to London but he's always a great pleasure to listen to. Can't wait to see the show on Monday

Drinks after the show and a bit of a chinwag; whoever's up for it?!

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 14:09:38
 
jamh2000

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 13 2012
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

I agree the production was nothing special. But Vicente really is a sight to behold live, hard to believe how he good he actually is. I thought the whole performance had great energy and he absolutely ripped it up in the bulerias at the end with the dancer. Looking forward to Gerardo Nunez on Monday.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 6:47:02
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 899
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

quote:

it just felt like... too much guitar!!


When I read that, I thought: "Alright, off with his head!"

Seriously, though, if what you like is "a variety of sounds" (e.g. "I personally like a variety of sounds to keep my interest going"), then why go to a concert featuring someone whose entire reputation was built on his playing of one six string instrument and then complain about the lack of variety? The headlining act was Vicente Amigo, and even if the other schmucks in the audience didn't know who he was, you did!

You raise some legitimate criticisms in the other points you make. However, your very first point seems to imply that, for all practical purposes, it's impossible to have a ninety minute concert of guitar-focused music which is sufficiently interesting to retain your attention. And the upshot of that just seems to be: you happen not to like guitar music as much as some other people.

I'd kill to see ninety minutes of this:
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 10:48:48
 
LondonFlamencoJazz

 

Posts: 17
Joined: Feb. 8 2012
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to orsonw

The only album I've got of Nunez is Jucal... any others you recommend?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 10:54:27
 
LondonFlamencoJazz

 

Posts: 17
Joined: Feb. 8 2012
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to machopicasso

Hi Machopicasso, yes I know it seems like treason, to question the sound of Vicente's band! I'm a guitarist, and I like many styles and have been trying to understand the palos of flamenco for a few years now. As my login name implies, I also like Jazz and popular music... in fact I'm recording an album to try to bring together these influences.

As I said, I like Paco's approach in this type of fusion, and I think he realised at some point that bringing in another frequency helped the overall sound. and indeed Vicente has done that on his albums, he's had trumpet on a couple of tracks hasn't he?

I suppose one of my desires is to hear the sound open out when it's implying a pop/jazz sensibility. If it's a traditional flamenco show in a Jerez club (which I've seen) then I expect just guitar, palmas, baile. When the bass guitar gets involved and there has perhaps been a listenership out there that has got used to easy-on-the-ear melodies like "Tres Notas..." I suppose I was expecting more of a "journey" in the gig!!

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but I think Paco was the first to make long concerts more focussed on the guitar, keeping vocals and dance to a minimum... it's all about striking a balance, right?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 11:19:57
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

quote:

I think that's why the Paco de Lucia live sound works well, you have flute/saxophone or sometimes harmonica to take you away from the guitar for a bit... and of course the strength of the melodies and arrangement is important. I could feel the audience around me falling asleep in parts of the 90 minute performance... it just felt like... too much guitar!!

I assisted to a Paco's gig few months ago. And it's funny you said that coz my feeling was the opposite of yours.
I'd have enjoyed to hear some more Paco's solo guitar performing. Unfortunatly The Master only played a couple of piece alone.
The openning rondena really hooked me. Great. But then cames the whole band with all that fusion sound and it was really diificult for me to remained focus on the guitar.

Also it's coz of the environment. During a festival. The show didn't came in a normal atmosphere for a flamenco recital. It was more like a pop/rock atmosphere. We were not sit down but stand up. Funny things took place around and distracted my concentration.
Farru was clearly the star for the womens and teenagers who were screaming his name, drunk guys who were clapping there hands with absolutly no compas. That kind of things...

All this to say that I'd be more than happy to heard more solo guitar. I've never seen Vincente live but if I have the opportunity, i'll go. Especially if he plays a lot of solo material.
But i also assisted to some only flamenco guitar gigs (with no baile and no cante) and for me it was also somewhere boring

At least I saw The master live one time.

Just to give you an idea of that gig' atmosphere



_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 11:58:18
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

Too much text. I won´t read through.

If you liked it, fine- If not, fine.

For the protocol. Paco has the dancer as crowdpleaser. And thats what LondonFlamencoJazz seems to look for. I go to concerts not to see some circus action. I go there to enjoy really good music and not to see some weirdo bass player faces. And flamenco is very different from this dixiland stuff. There is fakemanco for this purpose. Flamenco guitar is serious. Different type of feelings than Jazz. Jazz feeling is more weird..it´s like hitting your head to concrete with a smile and feeling good about it whereas flamenco is the way to express very strong deep feelings like love, pain, passion. ... If you come from Jazz,..you won´t understand. The reaction on Vicentes concert is therefore quite normal. ;P

I like Vicentes music.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 12:41:47
 
orsonw

Posts: 1453
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

I also most enjoyed solo live performances of Vicente Amigo, Paco de Lucia when it was just guitar alone.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 15:18:49
 
LondonFlamencoJazz

 

Posts: 17
Joined: Feb. 8 2012
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

Doitsujin


Ok Doitsujin but bear in mind Paco has worked with Chick Corea and John Mclaughlin; and Vicente wrote a piece dedicated to the biggest guitarist in jazz, Pat Metheny. So the worlds of Jazz and Flamenco are not necessarily so far apart these days...

And what about Carles Benavent's great playing on Paco's album "Solo Quiero Caminar"... some similarities to the great groove playing of Jaco Pastorius...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 16:05:56
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

LondonFlamencoJazz,

let me explain with a picture as example. The work and being of Paco and Vicente is like the sun.

The impact and appearance of Jazz players like Chick, Mclauglin and co in flamenco is like the size of the earth.. to the sun. So..basically..no argument.



I think the closest to Jazz was Gerardo Nunez with Jazzpana... In general I feel that its totally wrong to call something "influences from jazz" only because some guitarists use some unusual funky chords. Thats the way flamenco evolves and it can´t be just simplified by sayig..oh thats Jazz-fusion. Because it is not. Its modern flamenco.

In some cases I agree with you of course. But the overall evolution of flamenco has nothing to do with Jazz IMO.

P.s. I really like how you stay so calm and objective after I attacked Jazz-feeling. I like that! Well,.. I´m not seriously argumenting here. I don´t think too much about this theory how all relates to each other.. Its not so important to me. I´m sure if some other people like Ricardo give this topic a go.. you will get some good discussion.

Just go ahead. I´ll have some oversize cookies now and watch TV. Mjam! =)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 18:53:48
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

For the protocol. Paco has the dancer as crowdpleaser. And thats what LondonFlamencoJazz seems to look for. I go to concerts not to see some circus action. I go there to enjoy really good music and not to see some weirdo bass player faces. And flamenco is very different from this dixiland stuff. There is fakemanco for this purpose. Flamenco guitar is serious. Different type of feelings than Jazz. Jazz feeling is more weird..it´s like hitting your head to concrete with a smile and feeling good about it whereas flamenco is the way to express very strong deep feelings like love, pain, passion. ... If you come from Jazz,..you won´t understand. The reaction on Vicentes concert is therefore quite normal. ;P

I like Vicentes music.

100% agree
quote:

most enjoyed solo live performances of Vicente Amigo, Paco de Lucia when it was just guitar alone.

100% agree

quote:

Also it's coz of the environment. During a festival. The show didn't came in a normal atmosphere for a flamenco recital. It was more like a pop/rock atmosphere. We were not sit down but stand up. Funny things took place around and distracted my concentration.
Farru was clearly the star for the womens and teenagers who were screaming his name, drunk guys who were clapping there hands with absolutly no compas. That kind of things...

EEEEWWWW!! YUK!!!

thats why I would not want to go see Paco de Lucia nowadays, I had the chance to 6 months ago, BUT I did not go for that reason! besides I do NOT like Paco for what HE IS NOW, but I like Paco for what HE WAS !

quote:


I'd kill to see ninety minutes of this:

OH YES! HOLY **** MAGICAL MOMENTS IN THERE!!!


_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 19:16:43
 
Mark2

Posts: 1556
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

Hi LondonflamencoJazz,

Jazz and flamenco remain far apart IMO despite great flamenco guitarists dabbling in, or even seriously studying jazz. Jazz is about blowing over changes, which does not play much, if any, of a role in actual flamenco. A jazz player is judged by his improv, and while flamenco players certainly improvise, they are judged mainly by their accompaniment of singers, and as soloists, by their compositions.

Paco was actually the first to feature non traditional instruments in a concert-before him it was all guitar. He was the first to create a "flamenco band" as far as I know.

By the time he played with the jazz guys, he was already considered by many to be the best flamenco guitarist ever. That reputation was based on his recordings and performances accompanying singers, as well as his solo records and concerts.

Many afficianados of flamenco could well do without fretless bass, trumpets, or horns.

BTW, I love Jaco's playing, have his first record on vinyl, and was completely blown away by his solo version of donna lee, as well as the whole record. But I do not regret that he didn't get a chance to record with Paco, or any other flamenco.

For me, give me the guitar, the cante, the dance, jaleos and palmas and I'm set. I really don't even like the cajon in flamenco. It's too overbearing.

I have to agree with the other guys who prefer Paco, Vicente, and other great players without all the backup guys playing drums, bass, horns, violins, whatever, in concert.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LondonFlamencoJazz

quote:

Doitsujin


Ok Doitsujin but bear in mind Paco has worked with Chick Corea and John Mclaughlin; and Vicente wrote a piece dedicated to the biggest guitarist in jazz, Pat Metheny. So the worlds of Jazz and Flamenco are not necessarily so far apart these days...

And what about Carles Benavent's great playing on Paco's album "Solo Quiero Caminar"... some similarities to the great groove playing of Jaco Pastorius...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 19:44:51
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12356
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to kudo

quote:

besides I do NOT like Paco for what HE IS NOW, but I like Paco for what HE WAS !


Your loss man. For me I was totally inspired when I saw youtube clips of PDL's shows last year and year before mixing in old material with new in each palo. He is always changing it up IMO. And the medley Farru does is also so cool and different compared to what was done with the other dancers Soler and Grilo. I mean the simple fact Paco revived Siguriyas in his shows since like 20 years or more is refreshing. But I guess if folks are not focused at the same level as I am, it can seem boring.

Vicente has composed perhaps too much material in D# giving a lot of his guitar solo pieces a "sameness" that without understanding the subtle differences of the palos, can make the overall "aire" kind of one dimentional. Anyway, solo guitar is hard to do for a long time and make convincing unless you really have something to say with each piece. Having a band break the monotony by adding instrumentation is pretty novel at this point. I mean regardless if it's tomatito or vicente or whoever, you have to admit the idea is just imitating PDL's concert format. Nuñez was pretty unique with his more simple Trio just cajon and contrabass with bow, but for the most part flamenco solo guitar alone is rare only because of PDL's heavy influence both on programing and composing.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 20:46:14
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to Mark2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2
Many afficianados of flamenco could well do without fretless bass, trumpets, or horns.


True and thats valid taste of course. Still i would not base my decision of what i like or how flamenco should be on the taste of people who would consider a M7 chord as Jazz already. I think flamenco guitarrists profit from being very well trained players when they try to incorporate some chords here and there. As well as they know their neck very well because of accompanying singers in different keys or tunings maybe. This core ability wont change and the majority of the players doing basic stuff wont change. But i dont see why adding instruments is automatically bad or automatically good. If its well done its good i guess.

Oh just one thing... bulerias without any acompaniment is the most fail thing you can do imo. Not that it cannot be somehow enjoyable, but simple palmas or a cajon enhance that by a million. Same goes for all other rhythmic palos.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 20:50:01
 
Mark2

Posts: 1556
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to XXX

As you say it's personal taste, but for the record, I love modern playing as well as older styles. No problem with so called "jazz" chords at all in flamenco. But in a cuadro, when it's time for the falseta, I'd rather not hear a sax playing it. I want to hear the guitarist step up. Just personal preference.

Same thing when you see a VA or Paco concert. No problem with a few other cats blowing a solo, but I'm there to see Paco, VA, or Tomatito. I really don't care if the sax gets a 64 bar solo, the drummer a solo, the bass a solo, etc.
I think Paco said in an interview that at some point he felt the bigger concert halls he needed to create a different ambiance, which was the group. Maybe he was just bored playing alone.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 21:04:59
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to Mark2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2
Same thing when you see a VA or Paco concert. No problem with a few other cats blowing a solo, but I'm there to see Paco, VA, or Tomatito. I really don't care if the sax gets a 64 bar solo, the drummer a solo, the bass a solo, etc.


Yeah, these kind of concerts are basically based on the fingers of Paco and VA. This is the reason why i think the idea of the OP does not apply to flamenco concerts. Only because there are multiple instruments doesnt mean it becomes (or needs to become artistically) a Jazz type concert. Its still a flamenco concert where everything is based on the guitarrist. Because he is the backbone of the music, the way the music is composed.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 21:14:53
 
NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Your loss man. For me I was totally inspired when I saw youtube clips of PDL's shows last year and year before mixing in old material with new in each palo. He is always changing it up IMO. And the medley Farru does is also so cool and different compared to what was done with the other dancers Soler and Grilo. I mean the simple fact Paco revived Siguriyas in his shows since like 20 years or more is refreshing. But I guess if folks are not focused at the same level as I am, it can seem boring.



I agree. I definitely love the diversity in Paco's playing. Seguirilla is also one of my favourite palos and I was thrilled when I got a chance to hear him play it live when I saw him this summer. Personally I thought the seguirilla with Farru was the best part of the show. For me it's the Rumbas I could do without. Entre Dos Aguas was one of the first flamenco songs I got into but I got tired of it pretty quickly and could do without hearing it ever again.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 21:41:43
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

Cool much discussion. And much better than my post!

LondonFlamencoJazz welcome to the foro! Actually I enjoyed reading your review. ;)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 22:48:40
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to NenadK

quote:

I agree. I definitely love the diversity in Paco's playing. Seguirilla is also one of my favourite palos and I was thrilled when I got a chance to hear him play it live when I saw him this summer.

the only stuff that I kind of like from Paco nowadays are his Luzia Seguirya and Bulerias por Solea (from Flamenco Flamenco) and Mi Niño Curro Rondena .
I dont like the rest of the stuff he did in the past decade especially in concerts where he has bass player and flutes and other crap like that, as you can see the bass player here ruining the thing:


to me DIEGO DEL GASTOR IS 100X more inspiring!!
I think Paco is just taking things too far that I just dont like where he is going with it.
I prefer to listen to Nunez or El Viejin or Ramon Jiminez or Rafael Raqeuni than Paco

quote:

Vicente has composed perhaps too much material in D# giving a lot of his guitar solo pieces a "sameness" that without understanding the subtle differences of the palos, can make the overall "aire" kind of one dimentional

its what makes him unique

dont forget that at the end its personal taste, and we all enjoy different things in flamenco and were drawn to flamenco for different reasons.
its interesting that people talk much more about PDL and very less about SABICAS

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2012 23:03:45
 
Adam

Posts: 1155
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Philadelphia

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

quote:

ORIGINAL: LondonFlamencoJazz

The only album I've got of Nunez is Jucal... any others you recommend?


El Gallo Azul and Andando el Tiempo, for starters.

I'll be at Gerry's concert tomorrow, let's meet up for another pub run afterwards! Now that a few of us recognize each other it should be easier. (I look like my photo, minus the bowtie.)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 0:17:48
 
LondonFlamencoJazz

 

Posts: 17
Joined: Feb. 8 2012
 

RE: Vicente Amigo live in London... (in reply to LondonFlamencoJazz

Some really interesting feedback on my initial points, thanks guys!

I think I'd like to clarify one thing... I'm not actually saying I would like all flamenco gigs to have sax, flute, bass, cajon all added- I wouldn't! I love the guitar, just on its own!

What I'm saying is, whatever music you're playing, the balance of dynamics is important, and if flamenco started off as guitar, cante, baile, palmas then that was the balance. It seems that that was based on the guitar accompanying the voice. In some ways, that's what the guitar does best because stringed instruments can create rhythm, melody and harmony all on their own.

During that gig, I even feel Vicente looked happiest when he was accompanying the dancer (maybe that's my imagination!). When I've listened to that album "Canto" where Vicente accompanies El Pele, it's brilliant... it's like, that's what flamenco guitar does naturally so well, it compliments the voice.

There is so much vocabulary in the palos of flamenco, endless avenues to discover (for me)... so of course there is a lot a guitar can do on its own for 90 mins, like a classical guitar concert. But as some have mentioned on this thread, there is an aire, a feeling in flamenco not present in classical guitar. It's not just about what virtuosities you can show in a concert, but a journey of emotions, and of communication.

Perhaps after decades of accompanying people, Paco looked at these western guitarists who get to have 10, 15-minute-solos and thought, actually, I'm a great guitarist, I'm going to change the usual flamenco format and create albums/concerts more weighted towards the guitar. I suppose he created a new career for himself by writing themes around the guitar, and reducing the vocals to less then 5% of the album.

And this is the baton that Vicente has carried on with. I'm sure he knows himself what balance he wants to impart in the performance... I'm just expressing my feeling of how I hear that balance.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2012 9:38:17
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.1090088 secs.