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MANITAS DE PLATA
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 RE: MANITAS DE PLATA (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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Hola James
Manitas is the most reviled flamenco guitarist of all time. Mostly because he had no compás and presented a skewed picture of flamenco. But also because he was enormously successful: he played a Reyes which had been signed by Dalí. He toured everywhere to enormous acclaim.
I do not like to criticize him too much, because he was the first "flamenco" guitarist I ever heard live. I did not know he was not flamenco and thought he was sensational, but thanks to him and his singer, José Ballardos, I became hooked on cante. Do not forget that these people are fathers of the Gipsy Kings, masters of rumba and perfectly capable of bulería, the most difficult palo of all. I still think he had arte.
I have his first solo LP, but it is in Ireland and I am not.
Suerte
Sean
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Date Jun. 22 2005 12:18:18
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: MANITAS DE PLATA (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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James,
Manitas rose to fame in the mid '60s when ordinary people didn't travel abroad much on holidays and foreign lands were strange exotic places.
The legend went that once upon a time a French photographer was doing some work down in the South of France, when he suddenly came across this poor Gypsy guy playing guitar like he'd never heard before.
He then, through his contacts introduced him to a promoter etc and Manitas was launched on to the public as "The World's Greatest Living Gypsy Guitarist".
An undiscovered Wonder of the age.
He was photographed at parties given by the beautiful people.. Pablo Picasso, Briget Bardot etc.
He became a phenomenon and played to packed houses all over the World.
Like Sean...I fell for it all too and went to see him and thought he was great.
He was a great showman, great Gypsy looks and style...the genuine thing.
And he played (for that time) a quite amazing and flamboyant style of guitar, just at the time when about every kid in Europe and America etc had a guitar due to the Beatles phenomenon! LOL!
He never actually claimed to play Flamenco....just his own style.
But he would do things like start of with a bit of Tarantas, morph into a Soleares, then a bit of Granainas, and finish off with a blazing Rumba, bashing hell out of the guitar and bringing the audience to their feet cheering and applauding!
God knows what the folk in Andalucia must have been thinking!!
He was definitely unique though, and a great entertainer!
cheers
Ron
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Date Jun. 22 2005 16:59:18
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Thomas Whiteley
Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area
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RE: MANITAS DE PLATA (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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James;
My wife’s family is fom Zaragoza, Spain, and my father in law told me, “No one is more prejudice than a Spaniard”! You may be hated because of the family you belong to, your place of residence or for whatever reason that seems appropriate.
Manitas de Plata, the worlds greatest flamenco guitarist! Wow! Yes, I remember the marketing. There are those that despise his work because he is a Gitano from Southern France and not Spain. There are those who hate him because he could not carry compas in a bucket let alone play it. And yes there are those who love him – I am sure his mother is in that category!  You cannot hate anyone who has a mother!
Here is a true story. Manitas de Plata was giving a concert in the United States during the late 1960’s and Sabicas and his brother Diego went to see the concert. After a few minutes (or less) the two brothers from Pamplona, Spain left the theater. They thought it was all a joke! Flamenco? No!
Personally, I will not purchase any recordings made by MDP. That is my own decision.
In defense of Carlos Montoya, his abilities as an accompanist for singers and dancers (Carmen Amaya, etc.) was superb! He was the one who started flamenco guitar solos as a career, and at the insistence of his wife did so.
Carlos was a good human being and I enjoyed talking to him. He was kind enough to show me a few things about flamenco guitar that were very important as well as encourage me on many occasions. We called him the carpenter because of his right hand technique. When he played accompaniment his compas was like a clock!
Carlos was very introverted and extremely generous. He liked people and loved flamenco.
By the way many years ago I played accompaniment for his niece Rosa Montoya. Time flies!
_____________________________
Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html
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Date Jun. 22 2005 22:58:54
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flyeogh
Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
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RE: MANITAS DE PLATA (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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Tom thanks for a separation between Carlos the carpenter, of whom I have one CD which I like, and Plata of whom I know nothing. And now like James I will buy a Plata CD just so I can make up my own mind. (I’m afraid that the view of a Spaniard on a Frenchman, formulated in a couple of minutes, has no sway with me, no matter who he is).
OK if it is bad then as said it has a use. Mine, try getting lots of them (CDs) and making a dragon for the kids. Get the kids to paint them or dip them in old paint, create the dragon by overlapping them like scales, a minidisk makes a good eye, and then superglue. Then hang it on their bedroom wall.
_____________________________
nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
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Date Jun. 23 2005 6:46:12
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frhout
Posts: 453
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France
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RE: MANITAS DE PLATA (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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My first experience in flamenco came in 1977, a friend gave me a tape with Sabicas, Bernabe de Moron and Manitas de Plata. I thought Sabicas and Bernabe were brilliant, and I haven't changed my mind since then. I was more sceptical about Manitas. I got to France for the first time in the '80s and got some Manitas' LPs which were plentiful at the time, and even now. I noticed some rhythms were broken, missed notes which were so apparent even to the amateur ear, and we often hear things during a piece like "Manitas de Plata, que bueno, ole".
A few weeks ago, Chico and the Gypsies (Chico left the group Gypsy Kings) were invited on French telly on a Saturday, the very special guest was Manitas, who is now in his Eighties, with respectable long grey hair. There was an introduction of Manitas by Alain Delon, who said with a degree of solemnness and admiration that Manitas de Plata was the "patriarch". Chico added that without Manitas, they would have been nothing. The presenter mentioned, quite fittingly, that there would be no atmosphere without Chico (should I add, Gypsy Kings) in a discotheque [in Cote d'Azur].
I don't have a lot of his records, but I certainly won't buy anymore. Just leave Alain Delon and Brigitte Bardot to clear the stock.
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Date Jun. 23 2005 11:58:53
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if he is crap then i want to be crap to. I like raw crudeness 
When can we hear a sample of you singing or playing guitar in the upload section?? 
