RE: Martial arts flamenco!

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Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
not every guy with super fast scales went on to create the greatest music in the world

Word. Any monkey can train himself to get fast scales. I certainly did not "wow" on that Antonio Rey video.

Ok you guys are dumb. If you know music well and you see Rey play or have heard his music, you know he's good. The scale video doesn't tell the whole story, you have to KNOW something about music first to understand what's going on. Please show me the guy who can play scales LIKE THAT who can't play music either. Waiting, I want PROOF.

Like wise Bruce lee footage is not gonna do much for you if you remain ignorant to the art form. Florian, your skepticism is warrented but you need to decide for yourself what is definitive "proof" of anything and why do you NEED it? The guy is dead after all don't forget.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 18:43:00

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Ok you guys are dumb.

with all the respect, i appreciate what you did for me in the past but in answer to your last post...that being said...fu*k off mate

if u wanna discuss something with me fine well discuss it, in a respectful manner, if its playful joking that's totally fine too...but make it obvious that you are joking...... dont talk to me like your my daddy...ive never taken that kind of liberty with you...dont have to agree with me or pretend too.. but treat me the way i treat you...

quote:

but you need to decide for yourself what is definitive "proof" of anything and why do you NEED it?

well that's why I was asking questions and WAS trying to do...decide for myself......I dont "NEED" it...it was a conversation here, seeing that Chuck interview raised a natural enough question for the first time for me...i always accepted and assumed Bruce was it...but then i realized that my assumption was based on media, childhood discussions and popular culture etc...

for all i know Bruce or his publicist could have written it or create some roomers themselves...he was a movie star first...its what he wanted to do ..probably even had a publicist...who job was to maintain his publicity and public persona and protect and "Bruce" up the name.

Did you know Tom Parker payed girls to chase Elvis down the street at the start of his career when he was hardly known ? was good for business

"since unlike everyone here giving an opinion...Norris was someone that actually meet him and trained with him for 2 years, before i bluntly disregarded him as a straight out lier , i wanted to eliminate a few other possibilities....i didn't think it was unreasonable to ask what if he knows more than us, what if his body language and reaction as someone who have spent 2 years with him has more of an accurate opinion of a man all of us read about, saw movies, and documentaries ...whos dumber ? the person that asks or the person who wasent there that its absolutely convinced that they know ?"....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 18:46:54

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

haahh well said Ricardo , love it!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 18:51:33

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

Florian was pointing playing and !creating! music are two different pair of shoes (NOT playing scales vs playing music). I guess the analogy to Bruce Lee being that making show fights or showing off his skill on scripted shows is not the same thing as proving himself as a fighter in an actual fight.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 18:54:01

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to kudo)

..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 19:30:41

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

In fact one of the weapons of the American police happens to be a copy of a martial arts weapon called tonfa. Originally the tonfa was a harvesting device but it was adapted as a weapon when japanese authorities forbid the local farmers to wear weapon of any kind (if i remember well we are talking Okinawa now around 1600). As a result people started to adapt their daily use harvesting device as an alternative weapon of combat (tonfa, sai, nunchacu). If i'm not mistaken they also showed some increased interest in kempo that was imported via foreign ship crew. Funny enough those weapons in disguise (that were not regarded weapons at the time they were actually used as such) now have become official weapons all over the world.

Shaolin basically was developed for the physical and spiritual wellbeing of community of monks and was not intended to be used for fighting. But being harsh times the element of self defense did lure and one day they had to use it in order to defend them selves and their loved ones against deadly attacks from others. It was the beginning of a series of events that inspired numerous films.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 19:34:38

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

Point fighting is not fighting, Chuck was a champion of non fighting. Full contact fighting is much different, there is something called momentum, if it's on your side it takes you to victory if it isn't you have to change its direction or get swallowed up by it. Chuck was a point fighting champion which is just a game of tag, nothing more. The only people you will find who defend it as legit are the people who never fought full contact.
We had this saying at our club, full contact fighting is easy there are only two lessons you need to learn, lesson number one how to take a beating, lesson two how to give one. Not many stick it out to learn lesson number one and nobody ever skips ahead to lesson number two. Having recently watched one of Chuck's championship fights where he gets hit in the nose and he instinctively turns away from his opponent tells me right away he never trained full contact or learned lesson number one. Ask yourself how many times you've seen a boxer get his nose busted and turn away from his opponent? Never because they graduated from lesson number one long ago. There are some of Chucks less famous friends and competitors who went on to pioneer full contact fighting in America, Chuck went on to make movies. In a full contact fight I'd put my money on most of them beating Chuck. Point fighting is about not getting hit which is completely unrealistic and teaches a lack of full on engagement, in full contact a lot of it is about absorbing a lesser shot in exchange for giving something a bigger.
In Bruce's day if you went around looking at the average black belt instructor you would sadly find a whole lot of beer bellies. Bruce trained like a prof athlete and brought pure athleticism to it, he had a degree in kinesiology, with a strong thirst for knowledge in finding out what the human body is capable of.
Bruce was also a pioneer of mixed martial arts long before anyone coined the term. His training in ground fighting with Wall J(small circle Jujitsu) and Judo Gene LeBell certainly gives him an advantage in a real fight.
In defence of Chuck I will say he was painted into a corner in answering the question but even he doesn't sound like he is very convinced by his own answer.
In a fight who would win? Well in a real fight there is always the X factor, that unknown variable, call it chance or luck, not always will the better fighter win, only on paper.
If I had to choose though I would pick Bruce, not for his fancy movie moves or god like cult following but for what he was up to in real life.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 20:04:39

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Florian)

ooh florian!! that was funny!!

why did you edit your post to ".." ?? I saw it before you edited it and wanted to reply to it
man, I am not disrespecting you here, and I am not commenting on how Ricardo is treating you as its not my business.
I love what he said about scales/music/bruce , and not the "you guys are dumb part" ( although I have to admit that I laughed when I read this

)

for your info, florian, when someone makes fun of flamenco and marital arts or disrespect it somehow etc,, I do TAKE OFFENSE! I do get insulted! however, I kept on explaining to you to enlighten you without offending you

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 20:17:10

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to kudo)

i deleted it cause i decided i didnt wanna offend other innocent people to whom this means something...and decided i didnt wanna offend you either

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 20:21:40

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Florian)

I was not offended by that post of yours

I found it funny actually

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 20:23:18

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to kudo)

well never the less ...i didn't wanna take any more chances with people that know martial arts

...if you gonna piss off a group of people, its generally smarter if you dont pick a group of people that train all day to fight.....I just dont trust your "we all peace loving, non confrontational and enlightened" BS

like noone ever started martial arts to kick some ass, everyone just defending...and wants to smell trees, spread love, enlightenment and understanding...and you not punching bags in training you're all sitting around telling love stories all day

quote:

I kept on explaining to you to enlighten you without offending you

and you didn't in fact, i was worried i might have unintentionally gone too far questioning and offended you, i mean this means more to you than it does to me...its why i backed down and apologized if i was incentive on the other page....just in case,

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 20:24:50

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

You had legit questions and opinions Flo, some pretty much spot on.
Are fighting and Martial Arts the same thing? Ask a traditional Martial Artist and they will choose the answer that best suits them at the time.
For me if you have to defend yourself you need to fight and fighting is fighting don't F ing sugar coat it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 20:57:43

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

Unlike Kudo i have only the highest regards for Jackie Chan, both as a human being, a stuntman and as a martial artist. I don't think he makes fun of the art at all. I once saw a flamenco dancer performing a dans parody that would make jackie's escapades look like very serious business. Was i offended by this flamenco parody? Not at all, i loved every second of it (like everybody else) knowing by heart only a true master of the art would be able to perform a parody at that incredible level. The same applies to Jackie Chan who more often than not can be spotted doing the real stuff as well, or on top, disguised like a joke.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 21:44:20

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

Jackie Chan

I tried to give you a Like and then realized .....i am not on facebook ...

I loved Jackie cause he didn't take himself so seriously as every other action hero before him, he wasent your typical (i am never scared and i am always so sure of myself type of character)...he was always just trying to not get beaten up and accidentally just winning by knocking out the bad guy cause another guy just pushed him, always accidentally in the middle of trouble...always just trying to run away

between him any another martial arts movie star...he would be my first choice to meet in person...seems like he would have a kind of sense of humor i would enjoy ...if the person is anything like the character....but surely...hes been in so many movies ....playing virtually the same character...a big part of it would have to be him...unless hes just the greatest actor

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 21:49:02

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

I actually saw Jackie once but was unable to speak with him or to get his signature. The fun part entered his films after several serious movies failed to deliver. At the time it really was either being funny or quit filming at all. Fortunately "dronken master" became a serious hit just in time. Jacky takes his art and movies very serious. Only a few people are able to fallow his speed and high (rhythmic) demands. As far as i know all of them are asian but one. His name is Brad Allen and he is his one of Jackies regular stuntman/choreographers. As a fighter he is equally good or slightly better than Jackie (remember jackie isn't getting any younger). Jacky calls him honorably "the white dragon". He played his superb opponent in "Georgeous" and i love Jackie even more for allowing him the final victory...like passing over the estafet-baton. Fortunately he came back with the fabulous forbidden kingdom co-starring Yet Li, one of my other heroes. I also loved Jackie for playing a cambio in Tony Yaa's "honor of the dragon" (shot after his fabulous "ong bak" were he equaled both Jackie and Bruce Lee as a performing artist)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2012 0:08:46

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

Jackie is a humble and super nice guy nice guy according to my cousin who got to chat with him when he was in Toronto for the opening of an old folks home he donated to. Chuck also has a solid reputation for being a great guy and doing a lot of positive things with his fame. Tough guy wannabe Seagal on the other hand could learn from these guys something about being humble. That guy went around telling the world he was the toughest, most dangerous man alive, how he could beat anyone but refused a single challenge and there were many. Seems it was his high ideals that kept him from fighting anyone, although they didn't stop him from assaulting a much smaller John Leguizamo for laughing at him. My favourite story is 73yr old Judo Gene choking him out and making him piss his pants.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2012 0:09:06

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Martial arts flamenco! (in reply to Ricardo)

In the Netherlands there is a future film called "the raid" with excellent fighting scenes. You have to sit a long time before you will be rewarded but just when you think "there we go again, which ashhole described this as fabulous fighting scenes in the newspapers????" the party begins. Close combat in small hallways a la Jackie Chan/Tony Yaa. If it runs in your local cinema try to see it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2012 0:57:12