RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 ***Voting***

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[Poll]

BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 ***Voting***

Fibonacci

54% (17)

Euler

41% (13)

al-Khowârizmi

3% (1)

Total Votes : 31

(last vote on : Nov. 17 2011 15:22:03)

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lsnyman

Posts: 120
Joined: Feb. 6 2009

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to kozz)

Well done to the entrants.
I have been excited to see challenges in the past but each time get dissapointed because it gets screwed up.
it doesnt seem that there is anything for beginners, or most have a skewed view of what a beginner is. My definition - someone new to guitar, not just flamenco. A lot of so-called beginners here have only 4 years at flamenco but 15 years in guitar.
A beginner cannot compete against the entries you heard here, actually, Bulerias is not a beginner palo. If I m wrong then maybe we need another class called Novice?
I know someone is going to say "Thats why is called a challenge" but a goal is only a challenge if it is reachable and judging by the drop outs in every challenge, I dont think it is.
I would love to see and participate in a proper beginners challenge, not a composition challenge, beginners can hardly read tab so dont ask them to compose.
Find a beginners piece of music and everybody attempts to play it. that way you can judge abilities, techniques and Aire.
Intermediate and advanced players need their own goals, they cannot all be judged in one group.
Just my 2-cents.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2011 21:03:34

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to lsnyman)

ok to answer that...this wasn't done with any particular level in mind...it wasn't meant to include everyone...just those that could and wanted to work on this particular thing.. ...but we didn't wanna be restrictive so anyone that wanted to join was more than welcome..

if we were gonna be accurate about it, each individual player is at particular individual level...obviously u cant have 5000 challenges..u need to benchmark it somehow...the stretch between novice and beginner is not so far and impossible, you are never competing against someone else in this things...you always competing against yourself

same advanced beginner - intermediate

makes the most sense...i think anyway

sometimes we have proper challenges for diff levels that acknowledges that....this wasn't one of it..it was a mini challenge that stretched across levels on bulerias compas and rithm variations...to enter obviously one would have to be familiar with it...sure if you are a beginner u might not stand a chance winning this one but if you happen to wanna work on those same things ...it will be very helpful to you...which is exactly the purpose of all this challenges

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 0:21:29

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to lsnyman)

just wanted to add something here
congratulation Andy, Richard and JieXian ... I really enjoyed listening to your entries... and congrats to the winner as well
my vote went to Richard as I felt his entry was most authentic.
I really wanted to participate and the funny thing is that I practiced for the challenge and I combined some compases to record ... but I couldn't log or submit because I didn't have much time
Richard mentioned :

quote:

the foro is just not what it used to be

I'm not sure about that, maybe its like this because its winter? people are busy with their work or perhaps their studies etc ? not sure

I remember members such as Mezzo and Yohan, they used to upload and enter challenges but I don't see them around anymore
some other members such as Ramzi I believe he was extremely busy preparing to his travel, and kudo was busy as well or forgot...not sure :D
I agree the system in this challenge was somehow messy but we should learn from our mistakes
maybe in future-challenges rules should be more strict ... Deniz mentioned something fun which was people who says they will attend and then they don't will be added to a "quitter or loser

lists" or whatever hehe so people who can't upload don't participate from the beginning
maybe what is missing is the "action" element, members were very competitive and now they are bored, busy , lazy im not sure .... but im sure we can change this
just some thoughts I wanted to mention
ole to everyone and congrats to the participant

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 4:55:37

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to lsnyman)

Congratulations to the three entrants - I really enjoy listening to the entries.

quote:

it doesnt seem that there is anything for beginners, or most have a skewed view of what a beginner is. My definition - someone new to guitar, not just flamenco. A lot of so-called beginners here have only 4 years at flamenco but 15 years in guitar.

Having had my son as an entrant and having helped out with the organisation of some recent challenges, I cannot recall a single absolute beginner to the guitar entering. I may be totally wrong but if you organised a challenge for absolute beginners I suspect that the number of entrants would be close to zero.

Drop out rates appear to be around 50% and is often the most enthusiastic people at the beginning. Should we be too surprised? Life has a wonderful habit of getting in the way of the best laid plans

I know it may sound too heavy but maybe we need a 'Challenge Supremo' or a 'Challenge Group' for the more formal challenges to set a clear & consistent set of rules, agree an annual calender of events, etc?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 9:17:27

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to Elie)

quote:

but I don't see them around anymore

ahahah! I just opt for the lurking attitude...not that bad

anyway i vote for culpepper, way more groovy to my ears and taste.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 9:34:02

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to Elie)

Just look up the challenges from 2009. I remember the first one. Just looked it up, it had 12 entries, and judges commenting in nice posts with alot of feedback for you to benefit from. And i remember the cante accomp challenge. Those two were the best for me. People simply dont post and upload anymore. Worst thing in past challenges was that you didnt agree with the judges. Worst thing in recent challenges is that they are boring and demotivating, and I am actually that type of person who needs some pressure from such challenges to practice.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 9:50:31

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to lsnyman)

I agree with your post.

If I remember correctly, the last "beginner" challenge was to compose and play your own malaguena. I'm a beginner, and I'm not sure I even know what that is yet.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 12:02:34

lsnyman

Posts: 120
Joined: Feb. 6 2009

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to lsnyman)

I was trying to run down this particular challenge. This type has its place where everyone can enter. I am simply trying to set the tone for the next time we have a beginners challenge.
The last one was arranging your own Malaguena and before that it was arranging a Buleria. In my opinion those belong in intermediate level. If you can watch a video of a buleria and play it or arrange your own you are not a beginner. There is a reason that most teachers will concentrate new students on Solea, Farucca, Sevillianas etc and provide written pieces to start. They can be played slowly and still sound good and the techniques are simpler but still a challenge.
So, if there was a true beginners challenge that was within my grasp and I wasnt concerned that my 65bpm compass would be judged against someone who played weekend gigs at 200bpm then I would enter, and I am sure so would many other "lurkers".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 14:14:56

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *... (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

a 'Challenge Group' for the more formal challenges to set a clear & consistent set of rules, agree an annual calender of events, etc?

Yes I think this is a good idea , if there are no rules or people just make it up as they go along and try to put everyones ideas in , We already know it will end up a mess,
Structure is good , then everyone knows what is required of them , Judges, participants, uploaders et all , the three levels I feel are OK , there should be struggle , If you feel are not good enough to enter the beginners level , then you know what to do , and there are plenty of people here to help.
I think that the levels should be high, this is a flamenco forum, and as such we should strive for the best standards , this doesnt mean being nasty to those who mess it up a lot ( That would be me

) but helping us all to get a bit more that we may not get another way .

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 5 2011 14:34:25