RE: Tomatito

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

RE: Tomatito

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: << < 1 [2] 3 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Bulerias2005

Posts: 637
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

I know this obviously isn't flamenco per se, but this forum really is quite inactive when a post like this goes unnoticed for several days... back in the day I would have found out about this on day one! Super looking forward. :)

_____________________________

Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2024 0:47:36

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Bulerias2005)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bulerias2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

I know this obviously isn't flamenco per se, but this forum really is quite inactive when a post like this goes unnoticed for several days... back in the day I would have found out about this on day one! Super looking forward. :)

Old project, didn’t realize it was a new release. This one must have gotten lost underneath the BARRAGE OF NECROPOSTINGS!!!!!!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2024 11:38:39

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Bulerias2005)

What an Amazing show ! ****..... im still stoked some kind of high....

Tomatito opened with a beautifull solo , i almost cried....(never happened before) and got some goosebumps
unforna. i dont have the audio , my father forgot to record the start.. but have all the rest of the show on audio.

Jesus , it was so good... 1 hour and something felt like 15m or 20...

The two singers were very good the old guy was amazing , and the young one i knowed him , the Cajon player was very very good.. i knowed him as well dont know were i saw him playing
Jose son was ok , played his Zambra , made 2guitar nice but he could participate more.

The light show very nice as well the acoustics , full room as they deserve

wasnt expect that they would perform "La Leyenda del Tiempo" , the old cantaor gave everything (that was a lot lol ) but far from a Camaron , i guess thats the level that Camaron had "La garganta de Dios"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2024 23:39:09

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

the singers :

Kiki Cortiñas

Morenito de Illora (amazing)

Cajon player:

wasnt Pirana ...

Johny Cortes

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2024 0:14:18

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

as my father didnt record the first song that opened the concert , im trying to figure out which one it is...

my guess so far goes to this one , altough live was much much more personal with feelling

If someone goes to his concert and knows the track please tell me

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 20:35:47

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

You don’t know the difference between the palos??? That would be a good start at least. He usually opens with Taranta or Rondeña or Minera.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 21:39:47

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Ricardo)

well i know what it wasnt ...

, thats a start , yes close to a minera i think
It was so good , powerfull fragile sensitive that i was shocked

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 22:28:36

rombsix

Posts: 7903
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

Tomatito opened with a beautifull solo , i almost cried....(never happened before) and got some goosebumps

I just got back from his show in NYC. It was a rondena.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 23:47:51

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to rombsix)

i know that sometimes people confuse his rondena with the Minera

do you know the name of the track if he recorded of course?

i think that he opens with diferent ones like Ricardo said, if we get the track i can confirm with more acuracy .
For now it seem like "Soledad" or a version of .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 11:18:00

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1935
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

There was a labelling mishap on that album, so people learned the wrong titles to some tracks. The minera is called "La Cuesta la Calí".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 11:44:02

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ

There was a labelling mishap on that album, so people learned the wrong titles to some tracks. The minera is called "La Cuesta la Calí".

Yes this issue goes back as far as Manuel Torre who recorded Minera de Pedro el Morato aka “Taranto”, and called it “Rondeña”. Also Carmen Amaya the same, with Sabicas accompanying her in key of MINERA!

But…Tomatito has a newer Rondeña which is probably what he is playing nowadays. Let me find it.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 16:00:41

rombsix

Posts: 7903
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

But…Tomatito has a newer Rondeña which is probably what he is playing nowadays. Let me find it.

Yes, this is exactly what he played yesterday in NYC as his first number for the night.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 4:14:07

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to rombsix)

not in my case , this onde doesnt have tremolo and is a little faster , i think the played that in 2nd to introduce the 3rd with cante.
The closest that i found was Soledad and that Minera

well what i great show , they didnt just show up and perform, they gave it all.
normally i like some stories or litlle talk in the transistions of the songs , in this case i think would kill the flow of the show, so, little talk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 11:38:31

rombsix

Posts: 7903
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

The organization of the event and the sound was much better at The Town Hall with Tomatito than with the PdL Legacy Festival. He must have needed some warm up or was a bit nervous at the start because he was messing up a bit, but things flowed more smoothly as the concert went on. The dancer, singers, three guitarists (Tomate, his son, and his nephew) as well as the percussionist were all doing well. It felt like a balanced show, and it was nice to see Tomate give center stage to his son as though getting him ready to officially take over. Tomate looked so small and thin in real life after the concert. I think he shrunk with age. On stage, he looks like a giant, of course. He seemed humble but didn't make much time to chat after the event. His son and most other members of the ensemble were very sweet and spent time with us after the event to chat (in broken English, as I don't speak Spanish, or of course in Spanish, with the myriad folks in NYC who speak Spanish). Tonight, Alejandro Hurtado!

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 12:19:50

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to rombsix)

hurtado! lucky you...

well , here the show was different as it seems , no dancer(s)..., all good from the start , and his son only for second guitar and not on his solos, son played his version of Zam. solo that personally i dont enjoy that much , feels like a very short version and incomplete .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 14:59:21

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

not in my case , this onde doesnt have tremolo and is a little faster , i think the played that in 2nd to introduce the 3rd with cante.
The closest that i found was Soledad and that Minera

What you suggest are pieces he has long since replaced on stage for over a decade now (both Soledad and Minera have tremolo). He does improvise a little bit, but it is odd to completely reconfigure a concert program mid tour. He could have mixed his old montoya falsetas with those of the new Rondeña, and since Ramzi recognized the piece I suspected just performed the other night, I am pretty sure it was that. Since you can’t tell the difference between a solea and a Minera, I think we will have to assume he is not changing his program based on your vague memory. Perhaps someday a cellphone video of the exact show you saw will pop up on YouTube (couldn’t find anything now.).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 16:53:54

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Ricardo)

well i recall some things of soledad on his playing , and ramzi track doesnt have tremolo , and i recall it very well , i almost cry on that.. ridiculous i know , just moved with that song...

I will pursue my quest and try to figure out , as you said who knows if the video doesnt pop somewhere

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 17:10:44

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

well i recall some things of soledad on his playing , and ramzi track doesnt have tremolo , and i recall it very well , i almost cry on that.. ridiculous i know , just moved with that song...

I will pursue my quest and try to figure out , as you said who knows if the video doesnt pop somewhere

Ok, last thing. Check 2:40 here. This is the older Rondeña (mixed up titles) he would likely mix in with the new one.

https://youtu.be/8QqC0qEeUkI?si=3ot9rCD5vhSmlVk9

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 17:37:16

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Ricardo)

you re right , for sure that he mixed ... i woud guess that cali with some soledad..

i heard 0:32 and 1:30 3:06 for sure , all piece more slow and melancolic and of course he puted more drama on notes
one day i will play this

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 23:49:04

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Bulerias2005)

when gipsies hassles gipsies lmfao

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2024 20:02:58

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Bulerias2005)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2024 13:15:08

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Ricardo , some time ago i think i was listen to Paco , and i thought "i have listen this before..."
So , which track from Paco did Tomatito copy (?) that 0.31/0,35m of his Soledad (rosas de amor) and the tremolo part?

maybe that 0,31m from Pacos solea? but the tremolo?

or theres no copy , and thats "general flamenco stuff"?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 14 2024 14:16:24

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

Ricardo , some time ago i think i was listen to Paco , and i thought "i have listen this before..."
So , which track from Paco did Tomatito copy (?) that 0.31/0,35m of his Soledad (rosas de amor) and the tremolo part?

maybe that 0,31m from Pacos solea? but the tremolo?

or theres no copy , and thats "general flamenco stuff"?

He is just taking a phrase from F arpegio, resolving to C major. When this happens in Soleá, it can be viewed as following the cante structure of the “Cambio” or the penultimate line of sung verse in pretty much every style.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 14 2024 16:02:37

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Ricardo)

thanks Ricardo , maybe you can figure out this one.

I found a tutorial of Tomatito Soledad (as you know Rosas Del Amor record) when i was searching (again) the track to ear it , and the guy claims on the video description that the tutorial its for the tomatito Solea called Soledad etc. Well , it seems to be , but...after the llamada and stuff to prepare the solea he plays something that a like a lot.. and i m trying to copy or do similiar , the issue is i cant find that on Soledad...or any other track of the record... and i go further , anywhere... from Tomatito , i found a pretty close on the duet with Camaron (if i can recall). After some search it seems to be like a trademark of "Soleares de Cadiz (or por Cadiz"

Maybe you can help...

0:16- 0:32

what i found similar...

0:00 - 0:11 and some more during the song

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2024 15:36:04

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

It is just an intro or llamada type statement of Soleá. Like basic compás. The guy in top video is doing a version that comes from Chicuelo (he teaches this in his Encuentro video and moves it up to G and back down.).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2024 18:18:25

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Ricardo)

thanks Ricardo , thats where i heard first i think.., kind of stupid , i heard complices and una con carne last weekend...
well.. thanks , altough the guy is wrong and mislead , isnt soledad or even in Rosas del Amor

thats it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2024 0:18:14

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

altough the guy is wrong and mislead , isnt soledad or even in Rosas del Amor

Well look, he does play the first falseta of tomatito. That was his point. Then he attached the Chicuelo thing instead of whatever Tomatito or I would do next. That is how flamenco is done amigo. If you look to copy the abcdefg etc. of a flamenco performance, you are missing the concept that falsetas can link together however the heck you want. That is how “improvisation” is done in flamenco and I try to encourage students to do this. When I performed Jucal with my teacher Nuñez for the first time in Spain in front of the whole class, he deliberately rearranged all the damn falsetas from the version on the recording…..basically teaching me “a lesson” right on stage.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2024 16:29:09

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Ricardo)

i know Ricardo , altough the normal standard of those kind of videos tutorial is to show the exact or the most accurate to the original , normally if theres variations on tecnique , others ways to play it , or even do it different they do a disclaimer and show it (or not)

the guy could make a disclaimer or something like that
I spent to much time to figure out that wasnt in soledad or even in that record

the positive is that i had to search and found similiar in tomatito with camaron

thanks for the help as usual

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 31 2024 21:02:16

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 814
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Bulerias2005)

so much noise.... (how come??) but the guitar, the cante etc sounds great as usual

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2024 16:30:31

Ricardo

Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tomatito (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

While almost any guitar sounds better when tuned to Rondeña, I have to say I put this on and was like “whoa, that Reyes has really opened up over the years!”. Then I zoomed in and saw it was his old Conde negra.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2024 11:33:48