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Last week finally my Fusteero tuners had arrived and I am pretty pleased with it. Didn't know it could make such a difference. They really feel, and are, solid and look beautifull. I am convinced that investing in good solid tuners is worth every penny. Maybe this visually is lot overdone, but touching them feels more confident than the original tuners that were on it.
I'd opted for the 302 version but they were not available anymore so I went for the 304.
Feel kinda R.Kelly with a lot of real gold bling bling
I hadn't noticed the internal reinforcement untill I took the picture.
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RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to beno)
quote:
kozz! that's really beautiful! are those on the Navarro? solid also means it to be more in weight? or it's not noticeable at all?
Thanks Beno, Yip they are on the Navarro. With solid I ment there's absolutely no gap when tuning....which I had with tuning G....it feels really comfortably tuning the guitar.
The weight I havent noticed....but that's something I don't understand quite yet in-a-way. Some guitars have a real nice big headstock, some don't....so if weight would be that important, why not make the headstock a little smaller, it could make up for the weight. But will one notice the few grams?
The most important thing to me is that makes you feel confident when tuning. Possibly there are tuneres out there less expensive which would do the same, I dont know. The wheels are bigger, so a movement of the tuning knob is more precise.
To be honest, I thought is was a bit overdone spending money on tuners, but it really makes a difference and is worth it, another lesson learnt .
In fact, if you spent quite some money on a guitar, why not take out one of the factors which make a guitar feel right. Ofcourse I cant speak for the luthiers themselves, and I assume they put one good tuners, but price-wise it could be more interesting to put on just-good-tuners, to reduce the price. At least thats what I thought, and luthiers putting on expensive tuners,, was not reasonable to me, untill now.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
Looks super good. I also had my tuners replaced coz i didnt like that matt white knobs. I went for mother of pearl imitations. The pic shows some expensive ones, i bought something cheaper ;)
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RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to XXX)
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Looks super good. I also had my tuners replaced coz i didnt like that matt white knobs. I went for mother of pearl imitations. The pic shows some expensive ones, i bought something cheaper ;)
Thanks Deniz, I like yours also, and they don't differ that much in price.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
kozz, no offence and I agree with what You say. I was also replacing tuners on my previous blanca, and also thought it worth it!
I miss my full-black tuners on my Castillo but they went with the guitar... to tell the truth these standard Schallers' are more solid than those were, but neither had problems with precise sharpness. These go like butter but somehow I miss the look
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
yep, and as for the weight: Yes, I know it's only a little weight, and mostly function placebo-wise but if there's no difference, then why everybody talks about that feel between pegs and machine tuners? They just feel like there's a difference, and that's enough I think.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
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....but that's something I don't understand quite yet in-a-way.
I think it would make a difference to players who hold the guitar resting on the right leg and pointing up at a 45 degree angle whilst held against the body.
Nice tuners Kozz, bet they cost more than you first guitar!
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to sean65)
quote:
I think it would make a difference to players who hold the guitar resting on the right leg and pointing up at a 45 degree angle whilst held against the body.
Nice tuners Kozz, bet they cost more than you first guitar!
Thanks Sean, could be the case. Still puzzles me why not shaving the headstock, even when using pegs.
Yip, thats the case....I just hate the whole flamenco thing and what it does with your savings
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to beno)
quote:
I miss my full-black tuners on my Castillo but they went with the guitar... to tell the truth these standard Schallers' are more solid than those were, but neither had problems with precise sharpness. These go like butter but somehow I miss the look
LOL! Just use a marker pen, it'll works. It should be possible to try out various tuners, ain't it?
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
Many in the nylon fraction don´t expect much of a difference with tuners.
In fact, as I believe, differences not seldomly are being levelled out due to uneven drill holes in the guitars head, which will have machine heads under performing ( Which is why I believe that every luthier should be using a special jig for drilling to provide accuracy.)
My experience with the average tuners ( like Schallers ), as well as with top of the line serial production ( like Gotoh premiums ) and boutique specimens ( like with Graf tuners ) however is that performance can be of such a difference that it can definitly be of sense to invest.
Naturally, it also depends on the user´s demand. As I found out, the majority isn´t really too meticulous about tuning, under estimating the actual effect of fine tuning, let alone the one of tempered one.
Fact however is that the subtle adjustment on the individual string, while appearing neglectable, will effect a great deal in concern of the overall sound with all strings well tweaked.
Unless accurately standard tuned, better even accurately tempered, you won´t know what your guitar actually can do. Yet then, it will deliver all it has in terms of lushness, separation, and harmony anyway. ... And all the inspiration it can give. A whole other thing!
In the inexpensive shelve I want to recommend tuners named "Reliance Dixon" to you. If you can´t find them on the internet ( I couldn´t ) maybe you can ask Amalio Burguet where he gets them from. These work quite well, and seem to be really outstanding in terms of price-to-quality ratio.
For who is willing to knight his beloved guitar with boutique gear however, I strongly recommend to check out for a new brand from Klaus Scheller ( Germany ).
Here is how I tried to describe these once on another forum.
quote:
I would like to introduce a new brand of tuners made by Klaus Scheller in Germany.
They have been mounted ony my Rodriguez estudio and turned out to be quite what I used to have in mind.
Working with enlightening precision and making things appear as if the micro-tweaking range of the string had been extended. Even with the thick low E there is so much reserve given that one can tweak meticulously to an exact point in a very relaxed way.
So much so that I even thought the transmission to be greater than 1:16 which however it isn´t.
The gear works absolutely evenly, without whatsoever fluctuation, no slightest tacking or breaking lose.
And while tuning in into micro level being so easy things stay in tune reliably in the same time.
Ruphus
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RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to Ruphus)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus
In fact, as I believe, differences not seldomly are being levelled out due to uneven drill holes in the guitars head, which will have machine heads under performing My experience with the average tuners ( like Schallers ), as well as with top of the line serial production ( like Gotoh premiums ) and boutique specimens ( like with Graf tuners ) however is that performance can be of such a difference that it can definitly be of sense to invest.
You're correct about the drill guide. It's way more important than the quality of the tuners. When Gotoh's first were available in the US I was buying them for about $10/set for the premium grade. Now they cost around $60 or more and there's a company in Taiwan making a comparable tuner for about $10. Unless they're solid gold which wouldn't work well anyway there is no reason for the inflated price of most tuners. Look at them, there's nothing more than a worm, gear, post, roller, button and plate. There are innumerable products far more complicated and requiring much more precision that sell for almost nothing.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
I once owned a Gibson Les Paul and although it was tuned perfectly it could sound very out of tune. This was caused by the frets being too high and the pressure on the fretted string altered the pitch. Very annoying.
Kozz,
Another great money spending idea! lol
To maximize your tuners you might want to invest in a more accurate tuner. Peterson Strobe tuners are excellent but quite expensive. If you have an iPhone they have a cheap App strobe tuner that works very well.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
Nice Tuners. I like Fusteros as well. More weight in the neck means slightly more sustain and a slightly slower response. The further away from the body the more it matters. Sustain is a matter of taste. I personally prefer a flamenco with not to much sustain. And I prefer to take away some weight from a headstock than taking it away from the bracing system. It gives a more lively guitar. So I always look for lightweight tuners of good quality. I´ll try a set of Aluminium Gotohs very soon.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to jshelton5040)
quote:
ORIGINAL: jshelton5040
You're correct about the drill guide. It's way more important than the quality of the tuners. When Gotoh's first were available in the US I was buying them for about $10/set for the premium grade. Now they cost around $60 or more and there's a company in Taiwan making a comparable tuner for about $10. Unless they're solid gold which wouldn't work well anyway there is no reason for the inflated price of most tuners. Look at them, there's nothing more than a worm, gear, post, roller, button and plate. There are innumerable products far more complicated and requiring much more precision that sell for almost nothing.
I am of the impression that the vast majority has not experienced significant differences with tuners, as I suppose, not even too many among luthiers. But that does not mean that there coincidentally weren´t significant differences.
Actually, I used to believe the same thing; considering the boutique stuff as useless and over priced sort of jewelry. ( With the latter opinion still in place, in sight of most boutique manufacturers´pricings.)
But one needs to mount a set like the above on a guitar first to see how performance can matter, and in how far. Especially, if appreciating the sonority of fine tuning. ( Yep, got the Peterson strobe Flip, and can match it to completely halt when tuning by fork.) Tweaking with mechanics like the Schellers is really different from other tuners that I have used.
Quoting myself again:
quote:
It is almost as if the pegs were knobs of an electronic device; that immediate is the tweaking. With a strobe at work it in fact it feels as if you were turning a button of it.
It seems that there are relevant aspects of materials and the way of bearings used, but more so distinct shape of worm and gear, which determine the way tuners function. The latter apparently not optimally understood by common manufacturers ( including boutique shops ). As a specialist in mapping and manufactory of gear in his own shop, Scheller while selecting for himself a guitar in the shop of his friend luthier Stefan Zander, routinely felt the imperfection with usual machine heads; the slipping, stucking and breaking lose. As he told me, that was the reason why he went into the matter and started working out himself after feedback on visual design with luthiers Zander and Matthias Damman. Initially for personal interest, then been urged to put out more.
Clearing an imperfection which though not always prominent, at the latest noticable the moment that you get rid of it.
Familiar with well functioning, soft, without onset, turning tuners, like more often so to be found with acoustic guitars ( steelers ), I have always been imagening comparable functionality for nylon guitars. That is why I like to recommend these tuners for who likes precision tuning in a really seamless and comfortable way. ( Without having to hold one´s breath about whether pinpointing or having to take another approach / having missed out on the minuscule nudge.)
With 146 gr they ought to come in relatively light-weight, BTW.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to Ruphus)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus
I am of the impression that the vast majority has not experienced significant differences with tuners, as I suppose, not even too many among luthiers. But that does not mean that there coincidentally weren´t significant differences.
I didn't say the expensive tuners didn't work well. I said they are overpriced. I have used most of the high end tuners from time to time and am unwilling to spend the extra money for the name since I can't tell much difference between the $300 models and the $60 Gotohs.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
Gotcha!
Still; when I compared the Gotohs to the Grafs in smoothness and precision it was like ... , say, the handling of a family car and a cruiser. The Grafs again compare to the Schellers like a cruiser to a fine sportscar.
Don´t want to appear pigheaded, though. Just want to draw attention to this brand that surprised me so positively, for those who feel that there remains to be desired with common tuners functionality. If they ever felt that way, this make could be the solution. It has been for me.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to jshelton5040)
quote:
I didn't say the expensive tuners didn't work well. I said they are overpriced. I have used most of the high end tuners from time to time and am unwilling to spend the extra money for the name since I can't tell much difference between the $300 models and the $60 Gotohs.
In my case this is true...paid a few extra bugs for the handgraving and the gold....
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
quote:
Nice Tuners. I like Fusteros as well. More weight in the neck means slightly more sustain and a slightly slower response. The further away from the body the more it matters. Sustain is a matter of taste. I personally prefer a flamenco with not to much sustain. And I prefer to take away some weight from a headstock than taking it away from the bracing system. It gives a more lively guitar. So I always look for lightweight tuners of good quality. I´ll try a set of Aluminium Gotohs very soon.
Thanks Anders! Its kinda experimenting along the way I suppose. Those Aluminium tuners must be very light.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kozz
In my case this is true...paid a few extra bugs for the handgraving and the gold....
And more power to you kozz. The Fusteros are beautiful and work great but they're still overpriced. I can't help comparing the complexity of a set of tuners to an ordinary electric hand drill. The drill can be had for around $60 and will last most people a lifetime spinning thousands of times more than any set of tuners and doing vastly more work. Good quality tuners should not cost more than $10-20.
RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
quote:
More weight in the neck means slightly more sustain and a slightly slower response. The further away from the body the more it matters.
Hi Anders,
I can't quite get my head around how this works.
I mean if I get somebody to grip the headstock (ie applying much more mass than slightly heavier tuners would), I can't see how this in any way would affect any of the noticible sound/playability parameters of the guitar?
Sure, they may alter the weight balance of the guitar, or smoothness of tuning...but the sustain/response?
In fact, one would instinctively think that the application of golpeadores or a full tap-plate directly onto the soundboard would have a greater effect?
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