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RE: Picado attack, do you really need to choose only ONE?   You are logged in as Guest
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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Main causes of this problem in flamenco players is:
1. Paco de lucia

2. Dancers

3. Slow reacting computer mouses used for por... I mean net surfing.

The remaining 18% guitarists did not notice any problem cuz they were coked up.




cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 7 2011 19:35:58
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorX2k2

Ruphus,

Nobody said that if you didn't train your speed while young you'd never be fast. You have to accept that you would have probably been even faster if you did. Speed remains trainable over a lifetime, it's just not as easy to do. There are many factors involved in speed, not just neural factors which are relatively set by the age of 16.


Hello Doc,

... Like proportion of red and white muscle fibres, and length wise cell amount, correct?

Seeing my personal performance of action and reaction in martial arts without dedicated training before in childhood, I was thinking that general agility might suffice as preparation in youth. ( At which I used to be simply agile / moving around a lot with climbing trees and buildings or jumping while playing Indian in spare time. Just being a "wild child" as grown-ups used to categorize back then.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorX2k2

As for Grisha's arm... you misunderstand my point. He obviously doesn't have extraordinary girth, but he obviously can develop a greater power relatively to his muscle cross-section (Watts/cm^2) than most, if any, of us.


Agreed. I wasn´t addressing you, but comments before, which were adoring Grisha´s lower arms shape as if it was Megan Fox in the sauna.

What the performance is concerned, I can´t close my hand remotely that fast and certainly couldn´t even in the past. I guess the warm up exercises he suggested to us to be a very supportive thing to do for enhancing finger speed by addressing lower arms muscles directly.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2011 10:00:21
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

PS:

What do you think of isometrical muscle-prolonging exercises as muscular preparation?

With such muscles will be isometrically contracted for at least 6 seconds with the muscle group in question stretched to max. ( 3 repetitions / stretching further each time before contraction. Exercises conducted every second day.) Contracting in such a weak situation will result in replacement of tendon cells through muscle cells, hence into prolonged muscle.

So far I have only used this method for major muscle groups, which then develop exceptional power within short time. ( Big guys still bending when we shake hands. >pose< )

How if such was to be executed with fingers flexors and extensors?
Or should it be more useful to focus speed potential - muscle wise on the lower arm ( which I almost suppose )?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2011 10:29:57
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ruphus

One more:

quote:

There are many factors involved in speed, not just neural factors which are relatively set by the age of 16.


That in physical concern, but the routine of how you trigger your muscles can / will change anytime depending on preceding brain work, isn´t it?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2011 10:42:58
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Just wait some years till we get these mechanical implants. Then Picaodo will just be a question of money and we can delete this thread.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2011 11:06:51
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

Just wait some years till we get these mechanical implants. Then Picaodo will just be a question of money and we can delete this thread.

It shouldnt take long, Ive already seen it in movies. But in a way it already is about money. The more money you invest the faster picado you will have.
Teacher 30€/h
Training room 30€/week
Study trips to spain two times a year+teacher 1000€
Couple of spanish courses a year 200€ (must for deeper understanding)
Better guitars=faster picados 3000€
Ergonomical chair for long periods of training 900€
Gitano look with clothes and hair 500€ (for mental support)
Going for shows twise per month 60€
Strings,glues,files etc accessories 20€/month
Massage after hard training 100€/month
Healthy and supportive eco food+100€ for normal foodbill/month
The list goes on and on...
You see, its not so much about muscle charts than money.
So I gues its more like a class question. The higher sosialclass youre in the more money you have and the faster picado youre getting.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2011 11:27:19
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2011 11:57:31
 
DoctorX2k2

 

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Hello Doc,

... Like proportion of red and white muscle fibres, and length wise cell amount, correct?

Seeing my personal performance of action and reaction in martial arts without dedicated training before in childhood, I was thinking that general agility might suffice as preparation in youth. ( At which I used to be simply agile / moving around a lot with climbing trees and buildings or jumping while playing Indian in spare time. Just being a "wild child" as grown-ups used to categorize back then.)


Ruphus


Hi Ruphus,

The factors contributing to speed are :

1- Factors under the control of the central nervous system (CNS). These are receptors excitation, influx transmission, response elaboration and output to the effectors.

2- Neuromuscular factors (junction between the command system (CNS) and the effectors, the muscles). These are the initiation of the potential at the motor plate, synchronization of motor units, motor units’ frequency of activation, coordination of synergic muscles, and inhibitory activity of antagonists.

3- Muscular factors: quality of Motor Units, muscular elasticity and contraction power. The factors are the fast twitch fibers proportions, usage of ATP-PCr, quality of the contraction-relaxation couple and quality of the stretch-fire cycle.

4- Energetic factors: ATP-PCr pool and resistance to lower pH

5- Morphologic factors.

As a youth, general preparation does suffice... for general activities. Kids SHOULD vary the activities they take part in to develop every motor skills possible. But specificity is the key here. If you want to run faster, you need to work on specific technique. The same should apply to picados. As a kid, I was like you... a great Ritalin candidate . I used to participate in 3 sports at a time (hockey, baseball and basketball) and it helped me develop skills to play just about any other sport at a good performance level, but never to the point to be really competitive. I'm in the boat of those who started playing guitar "too late" (at the age of 21). I've been noodling for 4 years, mainly because I rarely have time to practice and I lack the discipline to stay on a rigorous regimen. My picado is probably one of the slowest here but I know I can work it up a little and I will, although it would have been much easier if I had started playing at 10.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2011 17:26:02
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Hi Doc,

Thank you for the literate background.
Yet, as you might admit, midst the general facts, sits your personal opinion on the specific question of age and potential, linear to common sense.

Without denying that early training shows to be most efficient, seeing practical life I claim that options can be superceeding common expectations on principle. And that stereotypes will be revisited in the near future through overlooked empirics.

My claim is that as far as neurological facility has been built up through general agility, individuals can still achieve top performance whether with physical or mental execution, despite undisputedly higher expenditure in training units needed.
I further claim that another reason for less success with late starters to be laying in the fact of them being either in or near to adult life commercially, hence due to working for income and with that at less spare time to practice than in childhood.

As contrary example of common estimation, I am thinking of my own vitae. With precondition as just hyperactive kangaroo, yours truely started martial arts at age of 23, yet remained among first talents throughouts the years in the schools and budo disciplines attented.

Then we have Rudolf Nurejew, who started out ballet dancing with 17.
Or pianists who started rehearsing seriously yet relatively late. Like Murray Perahia, or Arcadi Volodos who both began intensive studying in the age of 15.

Johann Sebastian Bach is being said to have dedicated himself to cembalo and piano yet at the age of 21.
Ingolf Wunder being another one who started out realitevely late. And Atsuko Seta, another very respected pianist started seriously practising yet at over 40 years.

On the other hand you have all those Korean kids whose upcoming parents sat them before the piano with strict schedules and curriculum at much too early age, yet turned out robotic choppers with about zero musical touch.

While less efficient / taking more rehearsal time, an individual can achieve virtuousity, highly demanding body work and / or high creativity yet after childhood, if only he didn´t retard through lethargic life style, especially in the age from 0-6 years, when the vast of basic synaptic structure is being built up.
And naturally ..., provided there exists passion to start with and keep up the stamina.
-

If you are interested in answering and have the experience, there are still some special questions for you about muscular whereabouts in my post above.

Thank you!

Ruphus

PS:
The more advance in brain research the more it turns out that unlike formerly stated, neurons can rebuild and restructure. According to latest info, such happening even on a daily basis!
- Probably the reason why I and a couple more musicians seem to manage gradually overcoming focal dystonia. A deasease originally considered incurable.

Seems one can always introduce new routines, notwithstanding higher efforts with age.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2011 13:49:23
 
mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Proportions of different muscle fibers count for specifics like maximum speed potential. In my opinion greatly overshadowed by the demands of adapting and maintaining good technique: patience, motivation and time (and a good teacher).
Yet, as pointed out, even great technique can be rendered useless if not paired with musical sensibilities. One also has to keep being interested and curious for a long time. Zoomed out like this, isn't it probable that a significant amount of late starters use this idea of a 'best before'-date as a cop out when things get difficult? I agree there is a handicap, but in my view it is mostly external, as in unequal opportunities and expectations.

I know a lot of people who've gone bitter and turn their disappointments toward others: "listen, it's not worth it, you're too old, you shouldn't be going after these kinds of daydreams."

This is a very common mediterranean lower class attitude. Coupled with the Swedish unspoken law: The Jante Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law) these things can become seriously inhibiting. I've been hearing these things since I was 13 and have nearly become indoctrinated myself.

I do however believe the brain is plastic enough for a lot of great things if one doesn't make it a habit to use these types of cop outs: 'I'm too old to learn computers, too old to learn a new language, too old to learn how to play a musical instrument, to old to learn how to read a score' etc etc..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2011 15:31:04
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to mrMagenta

quote:

you're too old, you shouldn't be going after these kinds of daydreams."

This is a very common mediterranean lower class attitude.


Obviously, Berlusconi at 74 (born "lower-middle class") does not fall into this catagory and serves as an example to us all.


From Wikipedia:

"In November 2010, teenage Moroccan belly dancer Karima El Mahroug (better known with the nickname of Ruby Rubacuori) claimed to have been given $10,000 by Berlusconi at parties at his private villas. The girl told prosecutors in Milan that these events were like orgies where Berlusconi and 20 young women performed an African-style ritual known as the "bunga bunga" in the nude."

Obviously he still knows how to hold a proper party.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2011 15:50:07
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Old, young, talented or not, if you have enough money you can have all the sex and drugs you want.

He sucks as a politician though, parties too much and can't do his job, the whole political world knows it and so do we thanks to Wikileaks

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2011 16:50:12
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to John O.

quote:

parties too much and can't do his job


John...Give the guy a break...I doubt if you could do your job after an all night bunga-bunga party too.

(Probably Florian could.. )

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2011 16:56:15
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

But there's nothing like it. Sometimes you gotta go bunga-bunga.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2011 17:09:16
 
mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Aaahh we've all been wasting our time! Bring on the BUNGA!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2011 20:47:41
 
DoctorX2k2

 

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Ruphus,

It's not my personal opinion that there is a window of opportunity to train SPEED before puberty is over. It's documented. It's mainly due to neural factors, because of immature myelination among other things. I haven't said anything about general potential to do everything else. I was merely talking about speed and speed only. Your examples don't really suit my intervention. If you want references I'll have do dig into my books.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 5:35:54

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Hey Ruphus and Doctorx2k2,

You guys going back on your meds anytime soon?
TK

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 6:11:02
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

Mr. Magenta,

I think to understand what you describe. People like to stay with stereotypes and oppose whatever refutes them, secondly there is the strong phenomenon of envy. So, what folks discount for themselves one shall not achieve either.

Then again, it was a Swedish company ( if I recall that right ) that was reported on years ago for successfully taking advantage of the experience of elderly employees. Something meanwhile progressing internationally, but at that time the example of that Swedish company was colported as unique in Europe.

Hi Doc,

My personal example had to do with speed as well, but never mind. I don´t dispute your quote, instead think of what can be gained still without special preparation but just vital youth. With the impression that the latter was being underestimated.

ToddK,

Since me attended this forum I have seen you contributing nothing but hollow bubbles and fawn.
If people don´t tell you to shut up finally, you could at least let fellow members alone who like to exchange actual contents.

Your slow head is nobodys resposnibility but your own. So, if it annoys you to see people pondering, instead of blurbing in-between you could develop new habits and have informational reads from time to time.

There exist educating books, magazines and papers out there, and apparently you are being literate in the same time, hence could try reading.
As been said above: It´s never too late.
- And much more rewarding than the gap of either truckling or permanently trying to sabotage others whilst having nothing substantial to say.

With simple minds like you, reluctant to expand, but rather fond and loudmouthed, I always wonder how they manage to have an income and feed themselves.
Seriously.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 10:25:04
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

you could at least let fellow members alone who like to exchange actual contents.


Yeah Todd,

All this medical stuff etc doesn't really interest me either, but if some members want to talk about it then that's fair enough. That's what the Forum's for.

Although I found your comment humorous, there are others who take offence etc and it causes bad feeling and arguments.

As you see, Ruphus has replied in insulting language too, which is fair enough, 'cos you've yanked his chain and he's feeling pissed off.

It's always the same on this Forum.

So let's leave it at that and let these guys carry on their conversation in peace. OK?

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 13:12:58
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14794
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ruphus

Well I have been just trying to give advice on achieving max speed with picado based on tools you might have, and based on my experience as performer and teacher. But this topic has turned into Focal hand dystonia problems and medical dissection of thumb meat....ewwwww! Man it is like nails on a chalkboard for me to read some this stuff, which I feel is somehow off topic. I think these problems of FD and such stem from being nervous or unconfident playing. Just reading about this stuff has given me a thumb spasm!!! I was playing last night and thinking "did I just give my self FD from reading that crap!!!"

Luckily a few beers brought me back to reality. Don't get all psyched into this "am I doing harm" thing, just play and work on music that is at your level. I watched a student almost develop these problems, and I felt, or I knew rather it was because he was one of the few students that would get very nervous playing in front of me and others. He had to quit doing arps and get a new computer lap top for like a year before he want back to "normal". But I know it will happen again if the guy can't just relax.

just thinking about it is making my hand shake now!!! Got to go back reality and check out of this topic.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 14:46:02
 
CarloJuan

 

Posts: 169
Joined: Sep. 19 2010
From: Philippines

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:



just thinking about it is making my hand shake now!!! Got to go back reality and check out of this topic.

Ricardo


I was about to post an article with my experience in FD. Thank God, I have survived the Calvary. Who was the one who's dad had FD problems? is it you KMMI77? I'm so sorry to hear that. Please if it would be much interest to you, i would be more than glad to offer my help. just pm.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 15:05:47
 
orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to CarloJuan

Please look away now if you're not interested in research regarding age and picado technique learning potential, I only post for those that may be.


The bad news
"These findings support the idea that there may be a sensitive period in childhood where enriched motor training through musical practice results in long-lasting benefits for performance later in life" (Watanabe et al 2007)

"music making (e.g., learning to sing or to play a musical instrument) is an activity that is typically started early in life, while the brain is most sensitive to plastic changes."(Wan & Schlaug 2010)

The good news
"Traditionally, the brain was thought to be hardwired following a critical period in development. However, it is now accepted that the brain has a remarkable capacity to modify its structural and functional organization throughout the life span." (Wan & Schlaug 2010)

"training-induced plasticity is not restricted to the developing brain" (Maguire et al 2000)

"Although no research in the music domain has directly investigated structural plasticity in the healthy adult brain, recent studies have reported functional changes in the brain following relatively short-term musical training in adulthood." (Wan & Schlaug 2010)

Orson's personal conclusion
Whatever age, get off the foro and get back to the guitar!


References

Catherine Y. Wan and Gottfried Schlaug (2010) Music making as a tool for promoting brain plasticity across the life span. Neuroscientist. 2010 October; 16(5): 566–577.

Watanabe D, Savion-Lemieux T, Penhune VB.(2007)The effect of early musical training on adult motor performance: evidence for a sensitive period in motor learning. Exp Brain Res. 2007 Jan;176(2):332-40.

Maguire EA, Gadian DG, Johnsrude IS, Good CD, Ashburner J, Frackowiak RS, Frith CD. (2000)
Navigation-related structural change in the hippocampi of taxi drivers. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2000 Apr 11;97(8):4398-403.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 16:29:30
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Just reading about this stuff has given me a thumb spasm!!!




Hey, me too Ricardo...I feel queasy reading all this mumbo-jumbo, and feel sick at all the medical diagrams etc.

I'm just happy to be in blissful ignorance of all that stuff.

(Like, I'm happy that my heart is still working, but when I saw a live ultrascan of it jumping up and down in my chest at the Hospital it made me feel sick and faint.. )

If I had been interested in that stuff, I would have studied Medicine.

And if I had a golden opportunity at 9 years of age or something, that I missed....well... I really don't wanna know about that **** at 61.

Does my head no good at all, personally speaking.

Would rather concentrate on Morao's soniquete or suchlike, or trying to get something right......

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2011 18:39:56
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

You, Ricardo and Ron, have described how you fear to be thrown off through imagination of neural and physical execution particulars.
Vicarious fear that can be understood; eventhough only superficial perception could be detrimental, while letting oneself into thelike whereabouts should only be constructive if anything.

After all, off-putting phenomenons like awkward technique and resulting imprints like focal dystonia do not come about through knowledge, but in the opposite through misleading pictures in mind of how to do.

You count to the lucky fraction of players who conquered the field of guitar playing without exhausting and detrimental detours, and don´t want to be bothered with pestilent images of dysfuntional playing symptoms. Just as if it was about neglectable occurences.
Even keeping personal disgust as priority in perspective, yet after having brought to notice that the majority of players community are being effected and hindered through pretty much backgrounds aimed at in this thread.
An attitude as if there was uglyness needlessly brought into your sight, related to still merely exceptional cases.

The point however is not to tease those with horrible images who feel alright with what they have, but trying to illuminate some cornerstones for the host of people who feel that they could be doing better and faster ( not only in bpm, but specially in time needed for reaching goals ).

And possibly end a couple of misleading premisses like: "To each his individual technique", which are to be heard in the community every other time, as if there were countless variations of efficient playing technique.
But the reason for so little of seamless playing and so much of laborious execution and stagnation despite intensive rehearsal is that in fact there are not `many ways to Rom´.

Instead efficient approach is being a rather restricted one in terms of posture, planting, engagement of limbs, paragon in mind etc., with only minor eventual deviation due to individually differing properties like morphologically.
There do exist circumstances like optimal ( without counter production or detouring ) preconditions, and everyone should welcome forthcoming and spreading of related information, as shortening and healthy conveyance.

Including those who feel no need for themselves, but should naturally be open minded for the sake of fellow players.
-

For me, whom it took decades to troublesome find out step by step, I would had embraced in a way without words, if functional details like made available or linked to in this thread had only been brought to me in the past.

From my experience with showing fellow players thelike particulars, and the gratefulness they displayed afterwards, be assured that what was appearing odious to you within this topic has been and will be of immeasurable value to others.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2011 11:02:12
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

Focal dystonia and incorrect practice (in reply to Ruphus

Problem solved

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2011 11:17:45
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14794
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

From my experience with showing fellow players thelike particulars, and the gratefulness they displayed afterwards, be assured that what was appearing odious to you within this topic has been and will be of immeasurable value to others.


I am glad you are keeping optimistic. The reason it gave me a "virtigo" type feeling is not just what discussed here, but links to and descriptions of FD, which is more what you have been "worried" about here then picado speed it seems, so a bit off topic. Anyway, what i read is this is a neurological problem, not a physical or mental "stage fright" one. Some chimps seemed to even develop it because they were given specialized skills with the hands. The map in the brain is the problem. All kinds of musicians get this, not just guitar players. That means ANY technique you have has potential for this problem. So rebuilding technique and such, well, it can be a moot point if you have this problem it reads to me. Yikes. Sorry, if what I read is true, no one is safe. Just lucky ones and not lucky ones.

Anyway, my hand feels relaxed again so no harm done. Also a winter storm is on the way, and that always gives me some weird feeling in hands, arms, head, back or legs.

About the age thing, my feeling was always as stated, it has to do with speed potential not overall playing ability. So many great players don't have the speed of PDL and others, it is not the end of the world is my point all along. There are clever ways of maximizing your potential, DESPITE what your physical speed limits are. yada yada yada

ok peace

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2011 16:08:00
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

The map in the brain is the problem.


Well put and most likely the real problem when it comes to FD...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2011 16:17:59
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Picado attack, do you really nee... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Peace, Ricardo!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

quote:

The map in the brain is the problem.


Well put and most likely the real problem when it comes to FD...


While I am all for the relevance of that brain action map regarding vast of whatsoever phenomenons ( good and bad ), out of all in sight of FD it seems not to be the case primarily.
FD seems to come about when neuronal firing being excessive due to wrong execution like conflicting protagonist and antagonists, which again the performer is trying to overcome by trying to force through ( instead of realizing dsyfunctional / straining practice and taking measures against wrong execution ). Excessive triggering without muscular translation.

The brain map has to do with this beforehand, in so far that the performer is imagening an unsuitable picture in mind of how to execute, engaging muscles groups in a conflicting way ( contracting extensors and flexors of the same apparatus simultaneously ).

In general however, the "brain map" causa is being spot on, in regard of almost every action.
Modern didactics should know that success is all about correct imagination before actual action.

This insight also being behind todays mental training of for instance top athletes. Those are being trained to invision the action beforehand as detailed as possible.
F1 pilots for instance drive through the course in mind, and such precisely at that that they reach the envisioned finish in mind, accurately down to milli seconds of the real thing.

From there, I believe that in the future proficiency like learning an instrument should become considerably different and more efficiently from today.
Aside of possible physical methods like eventual transfers of informative bearers, or mechanical tools etc., which shall remain unconsidered here, projectionist means of imagination will advance considerably, showing great effect on learners.

As a not so much analog but plastic example, it has turned out that individuals who play computer racing games will improve at the real wheel in the same time.
Just saying ...

Thanks for the nice discussion; and yeah: Peace! :O)

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2011 21:39:03
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