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RE: 640 mm scale length guitar
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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 RE: 640 mm scale length guitar (in reply to rombsix)
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quote:
I've been playing guitar (classical, flamenco, and other fiddly bits) for NINE (9) years now. I think by now, I should have DEVELOPED enough stretch / strength to allow me to play nearly ANYTHING I should want to play (let alone a "silly" F add9 chord). Is that a correct assumption on my part, or do you think I've been going through these past nine years doing something wrong, or avoiding to properly exercise my left hand correctly to develop actual FULL strength / stretch?
I know my post was a bit long, and the important bit was near the end, but I repeat, you probably already had enough strength to play the guitar before you ever started to play, it's not a question of strength, but of how you use/direct/co-ordinate the strength you already have.
I had been playing guitar for 10 years before I got into flamenco (electric and steel acoustic, no classical), and I have been playing flamenco for about 18 years now. I am still progressing, still working on things, still refining technique etc.
The cruel irony is that when you try hard at something, when you put more effort in, you usually increase muscle contraction (like if you want to lift something heavy you need more muscle power), but with things like playing an instrument, and especially stretches, you often need to use less muscle power/strength. You are probably contracting muscles in your hands to "make" the stretch which are limiting your ability to stretch, and the harder you try the tighter your hands get.
Same thing with bars, I used to struggle with bars, and press harder and harder to try to get the notes clean. But all I was doing was making my finger really stiff and getting nowhere. When I relaxed my finger and just laid it on the strings I got better results. Same thing with stretches, you musn't force them. You need to make the stretch mentally and just allow your fingers to follow.
What caused that cyst? probably unnecessary muscle tension in the first place, please get it sorted out via a doctor/osteopath/massage therapist and learn how to relax your hands more.
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Date Dec. 13 2010 17:04:18
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: 640 mm scale length guitar (in reply to rombsix)
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quote:
There are no studies to show a direct causal relationship between playing guitar and the cyst forming. It needs surgery to be "cured," but I don't know if I want to do that NOW.
I don't know a great deal about the specifics of cysts (though I do know a fair amount about general movement principles), but a quick search came up with this;
quote:
Cysts can arise through a variety of processes in the body, including
•"wear and tear" or simple obstructions to the flow of fluid,
there are a bunch of other causes listed, mostly more serious and probably not relevant in your case (source: medicine.net). There may be no studies to link guitar playing with cysts, but "wear and tear"?? And if your hands are a little more stiff than they need to be you will up the level of "wear and tear" - in fact a lot of "wear and tear" is caused by unnecessary muscle tension (because when opposing sets of muscles are simultaneously contracted it puts increased pressure on the joints themselves).
further down the page it says;
quote:
There are hundreds of types of cysts that can arise in the body. Some of the more well-known types of cysts are
[list of types, including:]
•ganglion cysts of the joints and tendons,
and following the link to ganglions it says;
quote:
What is a ganglion?
A ganglion is a sac-like swelling or cyst formed from the tissue that lines a joint or tendon. The tissue, called synovium, normally functions to produce lubricating fluid for these areas. A ganglion is a cyst formed by the synovium that is filled with a thick jelly-like fluid. While ganglia can follow local trauma to the tendon or joint, they usually form for unknown reasons.
Basically, if you repeatedly over-contract the appropriate (ie. necessary) muscles and/or contract inappropriate (ie. unnecessary) muscles (which means the appropriate/necessary ones have to work even harder to perform the desired movement) then the cumulative effect of this can build up to "local trauma to the tendon or joint".
You also might be able to shift the cyst through massage, but you need to address the underlying cause of it anyway.
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Date Dec. 13 2010 21:02:19
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rombsix
Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: 640 mm scale length guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
Maybe with a slimmer neck. around 20mm at the headstock. and ask the builder to make an extra nut with a 41mm string spacing so that you can try that.
What is the standard neck thickness at the headstock, if you're saying that 20 mm is considered "slimmer?"
I guess you meant an extra nut with a 51 (not 41) mm string spacing, right? Also, how can I "try different nuts?" Is the nut removable?
Man, you're hand looks scary!  By the way, I tried doing some stretching exercises today, and I noticed that my fingers have WAY much more room to spread apart than I can do so by just opening them up naturally. When I used my other hand to stretch the fingers open beyond the span I can normally open them to, I was amazed at how much more reach I can probably gain if I were to do these stretches daily (and if they actually worked in giving me the ability to naturally spread my fingers apart more than I can at this moment).
However, Grisha's saying that I need to stretch for 30 minutes to 1 hour daily seems excessive! I barely have enough time to pick up the guitar and fiddle around for a couple of minutes every few DAYS now (because of excessive work / studies), let alone stretch daily for that long a time!? 
_____________________________
Ramzi
http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Dec. 15 2010 17:37:09
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