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Just releiving some frustration...no offence   You are logged in as Guest
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kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

Just releiving some frustration...no... 

Please don't take it personally, its my problem, and probably should write this on a yellow paper in my own house.

Paco this, Paco that, Paco so, Paco up, Paco down, Paco left, Paco right, Paco god, Paco.....and paco....

Perhaps I missed a roadsign somewhere....I was given a free card for a paco concert here in Eindhoven, but I politely did not take it. You should have seen that guys eyes.

I am sorry the bother you with my frustration, maybe I should follow one of those NLP courses and internalize Paco with Paco Cepero if I see the name Paco again.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 19:22:29
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

Paco this, Paco that, Paco so, Paco up, Paco down, Paco left, Paco right, Paco god, Paco.....and paco....


Never mind kozz...just relax and listen to Paco Paco...(El Rey de los Pacos)



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 19:35:28
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:


Never mind kozz...just relax and listen to Paco Paco...(El Rey de los Pacos)


Hahaha, now you got me totally ****** Paco + Rumba .....
Just about everything what got me into flamenco

Relaxing no problem, 10 mg of one substance, mixed with 20 of another substance...

Just reading a story that flamingos (the pink birds as you know), while doin there mating dance, actually is incorparated in the Sevillanas dance with the arm movements. That just made my day!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 19:39:51
 
Estevan

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

Please don't take it personally

Don't worry, if you mean Paco de Lucía, I'm pretty sure he doesn't read this forum.


Kozz, in the Tagalog language 'paco' means 'nail' (nagel, spijker...or in this case maybe klinknagel, or can I say klanknagel? )

I hope that helps.

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 19:43:40
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to Estevan

quote:

Kozz, in the Tagalog language 'paco' means 'nail' (nagel, spijker...or in this case maybe klinknagel, or can I say klanknagel? )


Has dado en el clavo!


To be seriously, sometimes I think I am the only one.
I am not affending باكو , but is he really the all time reference for the majority of the aficionados?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 19:49:20
 
Estevan

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

Has dado en el clavo!



_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 19:51:00
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

10 mg of one substance, mixed with 20 of another substance...


Could be worse though kozz...

Like ..Pacozol....Pacodine....Pacozide....Pacomol...

(PacoCeperomol.. )

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:04:17
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

I hate it when the people write pdl instead of Paco de Lucia. Thats so sloppy and it reminds me on pdf the famous document-format!

You see everybody has some anger.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:05:51
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

PacoCeperomol..

Yeah Ron, that works instantly, where can I get those?

quote:

I hate it when the people write pdl instead of Paco de Lucia. Thats so sloppy and it reminds me on pdf the famous document-format!
You see everybody has some anger.

Hahaha, its has become normal, without asking questions why?

I've seen it the "House" scene also. I was in from day one, and see lot of similarities with how flamenco is progressing, and how it has is heroes.
I left the house for a while since it all has become the same, no progressions, everybody following the heros (Trance/Progressive etc), but the underground scene is going back to the roots and make some very interesting variations.
IMO go back to the roots, and make something interesting, instead of copying the hero over and over again.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:09:31
 
rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

I am not affending باكو , but is he really the all time reference for the majority of the aficionados?


Man I'm afraid of answering this, it's like talking badly of a religion. So I will keep it short.
Paco de Lucia? You are not alone.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:16:08
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

I am not affending باكو , but is he really the all time reference for the majority of the aficionados?


No, he comes right after Ottmar Liebert.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:21:00
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to rogeliocan

quote:

Man I'm afraid of answering this, it's like talking badly of a religion.

Why?
Time changes, so do people and music.
I respect all, and he has put his thumb on a part of flamenco....but if everybody is following him, I'll see a bad future for flamenco.

Here on the foro, are many very talented people, with their own visions and characters....imo they have a road paved for innnovation!

Again the analogy with the House scene...."Everybody wants a 303", but after a while it was overdone, and people lost interest.

But thanks for the backup, great to hear. Religions are open for debate as time goes by!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:26:10
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

No, he comes right after Ottmar Liebert.

I wanted to use is name, but couldnt remember it anymore....all due to pacorphine

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:27:25
 
Estevan

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

I hate it when the people write pdl instead of Paco de Lucia. Thats so sloppy and it reminds me on pdf the famous document-format!


You mean we should write Paco Document Format, instead of 'sloppy' PDF?

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:39:24
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

Its no problem kozz. But really, who cares about the majority?? Does it add anything to your tastes or knowledge, if you like the same music as the majority? Would it be any better if the majority didnt like Paco, or not as much as they do now? IMO life is too short to deal with peoples tastes that are not yours. I guess when you work together with other people, everybody has a different view and horizon on what good flamenco toque is. The only important thing is to speak the same language in the end.

Or only work/ or share with people who have the same tastes as you haha

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 20:49:08
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to XXX

quote:

Its no problem kozz. But really, who cares about the majority?? Does it add anything to your tastes or knowledge, if you like the same music as the majority? Would it be any better if the majority didnt like Paco, or not as much as they do now? IMO life is too short to deal with peoples tastes that are not yours. I guess when you work together with other people, everybody has a different view and horizon on what good flamenco toque is. The only important thing is to speak the same language in the end.


Deniz, its no problem to me, but the foro starts to become more and more a Paco de Lucia forum. (Its one of the search comments in the code I know).

But as I said earlier, its my frustration, and in fact I should just let it go.
I fully agree that everybody has a different view and taste, but to me it looks flamenco only started once "he I would not name anymore "....

Normally I don't care actually, and just let it go by, but today I did, and was wandering if there are more people out there havin the same frustration.

I love playing flamenco, but really felt flamenco when I was in Barcelona without guitar, and started singing in Dutch with some gypsy people from Jerez (Jiminez family). It wasn't about quality, technique etc...it was about passion.....(I must admid I was pretty loaded, late at night, and some people from the fourth floor, while we were out on the streeet, did not like me singing and I got thrown a basket of water over me)...but the people I was with only could appreciate it.

Life's to short indeed and sweared to myself I'll never go into debate anymore if its not how I see things.
But I just love flamenco to much in its total appearence that I couldn't resist tonight.

Its not in my Circle of Influence to change things (I have lousy technique, untalented if it comes to musicality), but would let a tear if the future of flamenco is all built on the new starting point which Paco de Lucia has set.

Sometimes I think I am speeking another language indeed...hence the majority of my posts are more towards humor instead of flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 21:15:01
 
elroby

 

Posts: 142
Joined: Mar. 25 2007
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 5 2012 4:31:20
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 21:18:14
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

IMO go back to the roots, and make something interesting, instead of copying the hero over and over again.

maybe there are a lot of heroes (Vicente, Gerardo, Chicuelo, Tomatito.......)that there is no place for a new hero !!
If these heroes are copying an individual hero that might be a problem but I guess they're not .

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http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 21:27:13
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

Paco this, Paco that, Paco so, Paco up, Paco down, Paco left, Paco right, Paco god, Paco.....and paco....

Hey kozz, I think this is the result of the over médiatsation of Francisco Sánchez Gómez. We know "everything" about him, his career so it's easier to cite him as an example or a reference.
Unfortunately the majority of us don't have the 10% of (for example) Norman's knowledge ...

quote:

but the foro starts to become more and more a Paco de Lucia forum.

Yeah! My modest contribution to reduce your frustation : i'm going to change my avatar and signature

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 21:30:41
 
orsonw

Posts: 1666
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to mezzo

Two people can both love flamenco but actually have completely opposite tastes in music. I think there's room for everyone on the foro.

Kozz, why not relieve some frustration by making a thread showing us your new Navarro guitar, I think you've recently bought the Reyes model?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 21:43:03
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to Elie

quote:

maybe there are a lot of heroes (Vicente, Gerardo, Chicuelo, Tomatito.......)that there is no place for a new hero !!
If these heroes are copying an individual hero that might be a problem but I guess they're not .


D.E.D.,
you might have a point there, but there's always place for new interpretations. I am not discussing there technique, thats just out of the world.
Overtime, I started to listen them more and more, and I do like some stuff of them. Gerardo, Chicuelo, Tomatito (damn I wish I could transfer his thumb to mine)....
Habicuela, great...and they all are adding their great contribution to the flamenco, and are very inspirational. But when discussing them it always comes back to F.S.G., I'd rather see references to them than, because they are the next generation, they took and rebuilt.
Perhaps also because they have connections to the roots,...if you can talk about roots anyway, since thats a question on its own.

They also look for new areas, but to me atleast, on a road F.S.G. has paved.

Damn, the more reactions I get, the more I question my vision.

I do like some tracks of paco, but those are most before he met jazz, and the fretless (farthing) bass etc.

But thanks all for your visions, maybe its time to do some introspection, were this frustration comes from.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 22:00:23
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to mezzo

quote:

Hey kozz, I think this is the result of the over médiatsation of Francisco Sánchez Gómez. We know "everything" about him, his career so it's easier to cite him as an example or a reference.
Unfortunately the majority of us don't have the 10% of (for example) Norman's knowledge ...


Hee Mezzo,
that could be a valid point too. As in another thread I opened, there's a lot unknown/half true...and remains a mystery...and this you can grap and know everything about it.

You don't have to change your avatar and signature, because it means a lot to you, and thats worthy on its own. You have your personal reasons for it, and that cannot be questioned.!

Yeah, about Norman....what can I say, imo Norman is a great contribution to the flamencoworld, even without playin....I am glad Norman it taking care of things which otherwhise could be lost forever.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 22:04:30
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to orsonw

quote:


Two people can both love flamenco but actually have completely opposite tastes in music. I think there's room for everyone on the foro.

Kozz, why not relieve some frustration by making a thread showing us your new Navarro guitar, I think you've recently bought the Reyes model?


Orson,
again I can only agree, and thats what makes it interesting. Ofcourse theres room for everybody on the forum, so I believe also for my vision.

I'll do a recording with the Reyes model when I've had my surgery, wich can take a long time, due to long waiting lists in the healthcare overhere. I am trying the get an operation in Belgium which should be shorter, but I'll here that next week!

But bare in mind, that from the 1,5 year I am into flamenco, 1 year I've spoiled due to back problems....but hee no problem for me! I wish I could have uploaded something more, and get feedback.

2 minutes a day doesn't really make you progress that quick, hence the reading about flamenco.

I am really jealous on you guys progressing along the way, so I have to do some work!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 22:07:49
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

He guys,
I really appreciate all your visions and support, but for tonight I have to make it to an end. The 10mg of this, and 20 mg of that, tell me to bed and have some rest.

I'll read the rest later on!

Namaste!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 22:19:35
 
Stu

Posts: 2095
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

but the foro starts to become more and more a Paco de Lucia forum.


really?? I haven't noticed this at all.... but im dreadful at following this place in an organised way...I miss so much..

why arent any "paco nuts" or just aficionados, rushing to challenge you or answer your frustrations? curious...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2010 22:30:19
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

quote:

I was given a free card for a paco concert here in Eindhoven, but I politely did not take it


Are you CRAZYY ?!!!...why didnt you go to see PDL for free ?!

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2010 2:33:13
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

whoa! you got the reyes model? how is it? let's see some pictures!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2010 3:24:06
 
orsonw

Posts: 1666
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to at_leo_87

quote:


whoa! you got the reyes model? how is it? let's see some pictures!


Yes, let's see some photographs of your guitar also maybe let us know who your favorite flamenco artists are, post a youtube link.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2010 7:00:26
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to orsonw

quote:


why arent any "paco nuts" or just aficionados, rushing to challenge you or answer your frustrations? curious...

Because they are wise men!

quote:


Are you CRAZYY ?!!!...why didnt you go to see PDL for free ?!

Because it was him who always kept me away from flamenco, untill by accident I saw La Parilla/La Paquera and the story for me began.
I cannot explain why that is, even for free. Friends of mine are goin anyway, so I’ll probably will hear it was fantastic, great.

quote:


whoa! you got the reyes model? how is it? let's see some pictures!

Its still save somewhere in Belgium. I’ll pick it up after I had my surgery and will be completely recovered.
That way it’ll be a nice present to conclude this frustrating-period of 24/7 pain.
Now I would be only able to watch it.

quote:


Yes, let's see some photographs of your guitar also maybe let us know who your favorite flamenco artists are, post a youtube link.

See above, hopefully the end of this year.
Its hard to say which my favourite artists are, I more a sucker for moods. So I pick a palo which suits my mood and listen to that. My iTunes library I have completely sorted per palo and if it is instrumental or not.
But in general I like:
Manuel Morao
Paco Cepero
Nino Miguel
Parilla de Jerez (accompany)
The Habichuela’s
Nino Ricardo
….

But I have no particular heroes, every player has its pros and cons, so does the cantaores have…it’s the combination which does it for me.
What I noticed, when it comes to more “modern” compositions, I tend to use it as background music, and when it comes to older recordings it needs attention to listen, because I get a little nervous when I try to use it as background music.
I’ll certainly will post some video’s later on this year.

I remeber I'd said beginning of this year I would play a complete Solea, that was my goal anyway.

----

My frustration has sunk to acceptable levels now, and can cope with pdl again.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2010 9:31:41
 
michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: Just releiving some frustration.... (in reply to kozz

funny thread kozz

refering to your initial post: it's the same for me, i'd also have had the opportunity to see paco in concert this year, but when i saw the prices even for the 25th row, i thought no forget it! on the other hand i'm thankful Paco made me aware of flamenco guitar, this guy did a very good in the past. and personally thought Paco has nothing more to "prove" to me, he's OK...

Another subject is Guitar music in great concert halls, it's something i dislike more and more. flamenco guitar lives through a certain closeness, a nearness that creates the athmosphere (for example i saw manuel granados in concert, without mics and amps, just a loud historical guitar). i'm sure i really would like to sit in paco's living room or kitchen while he's jamming around but otherwise i'd prefer to sit in front of a juan gomez, todd K, florian, ricardo, doit, at_leo,rombsix, jimmy, ron m., KMMI77 and listen to their stuff, i watched their uploads over the years and i think these guys are real motivation for me to keep playing through their thrilling ideas - more than so called "guitar-gods" and "flamenco-superstars"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2010 11:40:15
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