Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
WOW Beno, thank you for posting this. I've seen his name a few times, but this was actually my first exposure. Breathtaking is a great way to describe it. It's such a pleasure watching someone with complete control of the instrument just getting lost in the music.
It feels somehow strange to be here talking about all that stuff already almost half a decade ago.. also about jeronimo.. And now people drop in who never heard about him..
Man.. I think I´m here already for a too long time. Im also not in the mood to see that some people discover Juan Martin and Oscar Herrero again for the first time, become fanboys, and spam us with youtube videos of em,....but dont know that we had enormous flamenwars about these players here in past and agreed to never posting again any stuff about these guys and some others anymore.
But it already happens here and there...
Ron,.. you saw generations coming and going, and coming and going and... coming and going.. And saw all these repetitions of things that were all 100% clear in past but got warmed up again and again and again from the beginning....
fortunately for us, this thread is not about JM...i'm not sure what's the problem with Oscar Herrero? he's a fine player, nothing very fancy who's a dedicated teacher and doesn't pretend to be a virtuoso... however, Jeronimo is a virtuoso though his style is very personal and takes some getting used to...i do like him very much...
Doit man, why all the anger? I feel like I should say sorry for being a newbie I've played guitar for 17 years, but flamenco only really grabbed me by the throat about 8 months ago. I'm listening like 14hrs a day, but there's just so much incredible stuff to discover for the first time. By the way, it's thanks to you that I discovered Pepe Habichuela, so thanks for your posts about him
Alzheimers has it's compensations.. (like you can just listen to the same 3 albums over and over again and they sound fresh each time...so you save money.. )
Doit....a lot of people here think I have fixed views on Flamenco....but I don't...I just have current views. So I don't mind listening to other's points of view on old subjects to see if my opinion has changed over the years.
I also like all the different personalities, some who come and go...
I still think about them from time to time, like I do some of the folk I worked with in various jobs and will most likely never see again.
But that doesn't bother me as we all have moved on and that period was just a point in time and space where our lives coincided either due to interests or circumstances and remains a happy snapshot which I can laugh at from time to time.
Also 95% of folk I've met in every country I've ever been to are essentially good people with good hearts, so I never lose interest even though I'm a cynical old swine.
Dont worry. ralexander you are welcome! Post any stuff you like! Im not angry at all... Just joking. I heard the people of my country are very direct with all what they say and that this is different in many other countries.. I think that let me sound angry.. But Im really not.
quote:
Also 95% of folk I've met in every country I've been to are essentially good people with good hearts, so I never lose interest even though I'm a cynical old swine.
The same on my side! (Except the "old".. )
quote:
.i'm not sure what's the problem with Oscar Herrero?
His appearance is not manly enough for my taste. His playing has no balls at all...
It feels somehow strange to be here talking about all that stuff already almost half a decade ago.. also about jeronimo.. And now people drop in who never heard about him..
Thats what happens with forums Doit! I find it rather rude always linking to discussions in the past, as if the discussion has come to a conclusion.
Sometimes I feel the same way too, but hey, 1.5 years ago, I was the same....still wandering who might have thought "Oh no, not that question again".... It is all up to you what it does to you, but you can't blame the new-ones, in the end we are all afficionados....
Actually I like Herrero as well. And the same goes for Martin, Paco, Habichuelas, Vicente, Gerardo, Pinana, etc and it goes even to Gipsy Kings or Ojos de brujo.
I like them all. Some I like better some not that much. Some of them are quite evident to know, yet I came to know them just a few years ago. That happens - at least to me
always loved Jeronimos persona ( I hear hes a supper nice guy), his skill his performance is unbelievable but il be f***ed if i ever understood his music...
most of his music seems to be more about keep proving his skill..rather then telling a story...IMO it would be impressive and entertaining to see perform live but as far as his music goes to listen to on a cd...
i am still looking forward for him to mature or at least humble down as a composer...i think i played his solo album once or twice...its all impressive technique yet nothing really stands out or stays with me....not all of it is bad or anything there's some nice stuff but gets lost between SO MUCH of everything else hes got too much stuff...too many changes too many notes, too many falsetas, too much of impressive technique ..nothing has time to settle...like its an martial arts demonstration of all of his techniques and weapons on every single music piece
its strange cause i remembered and preferred and re listened many times to albums from way lesser technically able guitarists...and probably the falsetas weren't even as good or sophisticated but where better at arranging them or they stood out more cause they either couldn't or chose not to do so much..or the changes weren't so extreme and u could follow a melody or had time to process it ..hes a perfect example that brilliant technical abilities or even good composing dosent necessarily guarantee it...the arranging and placing of everything is just as important...makes u appreciate those guys that get it right more and manage to actually tell a story
as far as technique and ability goes he might even be the most gifted and skilled player in Flamenco atm or probably at least top 3...but music...well any day now...maybe the next albums
also i could be unfair on him cause we all expected so much from him...he was supposed to be it after Paco...we all thought ? ( well i did anyway)..he was going to be it....he had all the technique and the promises and the youth advantage over someone like Riqueni who was also in contention at the top of his game before all his personal troubles started...Even Paco said he couldn't play like him at his age...yet you dont hear of Jeronimo as often as you should considering his technical abilities and that he was groomed to be great from a very young age.....kind of like Farruquito only he seems to have lived up to his expectations more ...
am i being too harsh ? expecting too much ? lol probably..... i realize is not as easy to clearly stand out this day with that much talent out there... ...i say all this while still remaining a Jeronimo fan, probably always will be.. i like seeing him perform... i just dont like his music yet...this performance is great, i have seen it before
also he could be doing all those things i accuse him of not doing and it might just be going over my head...i can only speak for me
his skill his performance is unbelievable but il be f***ed if i ever understood his music...
yep, Flo! I always felt the same, so that's the reason I knew him, but never was into his music really.... but this video just hit me on the heart somehow..
i don't know what you guys are talking about. he is a modern player like many others too. if you don't "understand" him , then you probably don't understand many others too, or you understand him just like others, and all this talk is basically some kind of pseudo-intellectual talk without any real basis. he tells stories all the time in his compositions. if that isn't a story and just proving skills, then i don't know:
and expecting from someone to be the next paco, is impossible. not because paco was or is the best technically, but because 90% of possible things on guitar which suit flamenco music is already covered by him and few others. there is not much left to be discovered. everything beyond that would probably leave flamenco genre totally. now if we consider this, and still hear falsetas and composition which are new and somehow haunting, that deserves a big Ole.
and i also don't believe in the theory that what we hear today and consider as modern, will be the puro and traditional stuff in 30 years or so. this is not a constant development imo. we already see some kind of "back to the roots" movement in the compositions. but thats a different issue
don't know what you guys are talking about. he is a modern player like many others too. if you don't "understand" him , then you probably don't understand many others too, or you understand him just like others, and all this talk is basically some kind of pseudo-intellectual talk without any real basis. he tells stories all the time in his compositions. if that isn't a story and just proving skills, then i don't know:
thats just it...its not any intellectual talk based on any real bases, how could it be, its music...its based on how it makes me feel and how his music stays with me and how it makes me feel in comparasement to other, thats the only real base i trust when it comes to what i like... what other way is there to pick the music you like ?...and i would like to think that i understand plenty of other modern players...well i would like to think so anyway...as much as you would like to think u understand him or anybody u like
...every modern player or music is not the same...otherwise i might just get 1 cd a year from any guitarist and get it over with..
understanding or liking one "modern" guitarist does not guarantee understanding or liking the next....
one thing i know is that our opinions, likes, ideas and things we know or think we know, or things we like or expect in flamenco is one big continuous circle..round and round, first you think its black and white then learn more and realize its grey, then u think u know again...everything you wrote i might have written 3 years ago and infact i think i have...and i might be back there again in the next cycle when i am changing taste again, i dont know if i am ahead of you or behind you, i dont think it even matters, i know that i have given up any idea that i am sure of anything or 100% certain of what i will like 3 years from now... or in fact even know anything besides my feelings... so i must be further along in the cycle then you :-)))jk.......so if none of us know anything or always changing...then all we really have left is they way it makes us feel in the moment of listening to it don't we [;-)]...unless you got some "facts" to write down for me which upon reading it will instantly make me like his compositions
eg.."Paco has done everything but because 90% of possible things on guitar which suit flamenco music"....
has he ? cmon bro dont take your human evolution lessons from what you regurgitated from reading on a flamenco forum, i remember reading that here about 2 years ago ..... i know it sounds hard to argue with and convincing cause after all its PACO ....but has he ? is that it ? then flamenco guitar must be a dying thing...nobody has done everything...hes done more then anyone YET and up till now...but he hasn't done everything...unless u believe humans have concluded all the possible advances and changes in any field and that's it...everything will remain the same for the next 3000 years... how could you know whats possible if we haven't discoved it yet, what was it ? a few hundreds years ago there were no guitars at all ? and no rules, guidelines, techniques, concept of whats possible for guitar, flamenco guitar to speak of
i am sure that before Paco came along it was very hard to imagine anyone that would change anything or take things further then the last IT guy did too.....well by some people anyway
I feel some kind of thankfulness towards Paco for developing so many ideas, but that doesnt mean he is the only one who is contributing to flamenco or has his own style. And of course it is impossible to say that most ideas have already been discovered. One would have to know beforehand what ideas will be discovered in the next years to say that they are just a small part of what already has been done.
I think if you THINK that there will be nothing to come in future, and that everybody besides Paco, Vicente, Tomate, Nunez, has nothing to offer than it will be like that. Then you can sit down and moan about every bit of new things happening and how much better the old days were and that Paco already did it But if you keep your ears open then maybe you will discover new joyful things and can also appreciate it when they are not Pacos ideas ;) Remember, Paco never stood still!!!
Oh and about Jeronimo i agree with Flo he is a bit too crazy although I liked swin de cano. The barcelona vid not so much as it is a bit chaotic structurewise as flo says... swin the cano vid is better in that regard.
its not me its Mozila...i got a version that has spell check and!!! ideas check buttons ....i am just pressing random letters i tried to put down a few impressive, informed facts i have learned in all my years ...got rejected by the ideas check option... so i based my whole piece around the fact that i dont know anything and Mozila gave it the ok, i could have started flamenco yesterday and id know more...go figure
I am grateful I'm never going to have it 'figured out' and that my understanding, playing and appreciation can always grow and change.
PS His solea was always great but damn he's good in that solea from 2009 rtve2. He's got his wildness but it's framed well, this is dangerous and dynamic playing! I am moved. (referring to the thread about smooth continuous rasgueo check out his rasgueo at 0.36 and the change in dynamic straight after it)
hopefully one day you will be wise enough to be completely stupid and accept it that is my goal anyway....then i am going to write a blank book or something or make a dvd with an hour of nothing but black screen it will be the smartest thing anyone's ever said ...cause there's so much room to be right
well if i work hard and applie myself and continue live in this world and read and see and hear ...i see no reason why one day i cant be... at least partially there...if not all the way
that's the meaning of life isn't it ? u leave with the same things you came in with....naked and dumb
? The answer to that is in the second sentence of my post. You just have to read a few words further... Man..these British guys are so lazy.. tststs....
Doit theres alot of talk of macho appearance and balls from you lately...anything u wanna talk about ? ..what do you prefer ? a teddy bear or someone to teach you discipline
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
Printable Version
I've played guitar for 17 years, but flamenco only really grabbed me by the throat about 8 months ago. I'm listening like 14hrs a day, but there's just so much incredible stuff to discover for the first time. By the way, it's thanks to you that I discovered Pepe Habichuela, so thanks for your posts about him 
I heard the people of my country are very direct with all what they say and that this is different in many other countries.. I think that let me sound angry.. But Im really not. 
His playing has no balls at all...
...cause there's so much room to be right 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread