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RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco?   You are logged in as Guest
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[Poll]

Puro or Nuevo Flamenco?
Puro
  22% (8)
Nuevo
  8% (3)
More Puro
  20% (7)
More Nuevo
  11% (4)
Equally Both
  37% (13)


Total Votes : 35
(last vote on : Dec. 7 2010 17:07:40) 
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Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

Here is a dibujo of Planeta. One of two that are known, the other being the one Norman posted. http://www.flamenco-world.com/magazine/about/historia_del_flamenco/paginas/e12.htm

You guys can debate about history all you want (actually quite interesting reading for some of us...). I just think we should bring back those hats. (Or is it a tajine?)

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 18:11:38
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
quote:

I just think we should bring back those hats.


A very practical fashion for keeping one's bottle of Mazanilla at just the right temperature, as in James Bond.

I actually wish they would get rid of the Cajon and bring back the jug thing that the kid plays in that Moraito video.

I love that 'bong' sound... ... (really! ... way cooler than Cajon IMO)



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 18:29:14
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

I actually wish they would get rid of the Cajon and bring back the jug thing that the kid plays in that Moraito video.

The one where they introduce it saying "this has never been tried in flamenco before"!
Yes it's nice.
quote:

I love that 'bong' sound...
...yeah, a couple of bong hits will make anything sound better
On some recordings (e.g. Poveda's tango on 'Zaguán') you can hear an udu which is a Nigerian clay pot drum, sounds good too. Actually I'm not sure if that's what it is, maybe Kozz can tell us, he makes them.

(But I agree the Junta de Andalucía really should turn its attention to the problem of cajonitis).

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 18:54:06
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: NormanKliman
I agree with that, but I suppose that anyone who plays the guitar to feed their children will have a "hard" attitude about suffering and discipline.


They suffer because they have little money, not because it wouldnt be art if they didnt suffer. If second would be true, they wouldnt complain about it (but that would be masochistic tbh, and i dont share this attitude). In reality, people complain about new stuff because they simply dont like it, but instead of saying it straight they feel like giving a reason for it (its unflamenco, jazz, they dont suffer, etc...).

quote:

Most of today's guitarists would probably have a hard time playing like Marote.


most of yesterdays guitarrists too, just like not everybody today can play like Vicente. Copying a personal playing style is different from knowing how to play say a traditional falseta and i think we all know that moderners can play traditional stuff. Overall i have the feeling that modern players could play harder all the time, they just dont use it throughout.

"It's a big part of their culture." thanks! thats all i wanted to say.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 18:56:19
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to gounaro) 
quote:

..I've seen two drawings that are supposed to represent El Planeta. One is here

http://www.horizonteflamenco.com/pagina.php?n=fillo


Oh thank god now i dont have to wonder what he looks like anymore ...somehow i thought hed be taller

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 20:18:12
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to gounaro) 
Puro and "nuevo" are not opposing ideas. Puro just means pure. It is how something is interpreted and performed. Just playing old music is not "puro". And something pure can be composed or performed yesterday, today, or tomorrow. Traditional, nuevo, modern, etc, all need dates to be talked about in context, but puro needs no date.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 20:33:19
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
quote:

The one where they introduce it saying "this has never been tried in flamenco before"!


Hmm..I understood anyway that the jug was played as a percussion instrument in Villancicos from way back, even when no guitars were involved?

Maybe I'm wrong though Estevan...I just read things in books but have no personal knowledge.

I kinda get the gut feeling, however that this was not the first time it was ever played in Flamenco!


"La zambomba y la misa flamenca son las celebraciones más genuinas de la festividad católica andaluza. Se trata de la manifestación de una cultura oral de siglos, heredada de los mayores y oralmente transmitida de padres a hijos."

cheers,

Ron

(PS: BTW.. It was played in Scotland WAY before then! ..That's how we invented the Blues! )
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 20:42:00
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:


Hmm..I understood anyway that the jug was played as a percussion instrument in Villancicos from way back, even when no guitars were involved?

Yes, the guy said that they're usually used in villancicos (which I was thinking of as 'not flamenco', but of course they can be), but I guess he meant that it hadn't been done with bulerias.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 20:48:37
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
quote:

but I guess he meant that it hadn't been done with bulerias.


Wow!

You mean NEVER EVER before!!

Shish! I'm glad Ondajerez were around to record that VERY MOMENT!!

(Just joking Estevan... )

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 20:57:11
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

You mean NEVER EVER before!!

Yeah, amazing, innit? Introducing an impurity in public - no wonder the kid looked nervous!

(Hmmm....I wonder when "knuckles on the table top" was first introduced)

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 21:05:50
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
quote:

Yeah, amazing, innit? Introducing an impurity in public - no wonder the kid looked nervous!




cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2010 21:07:44
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

I actually wish they would get rid of the Cajon and bring back the jug thing that the kid plays in that Moraito video.


You all know who is guilty to this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caj%C3%B3n
"In the 1970s, Peruvian composer and cajón master Caitro Soto gave a cajón as a present to Spanish guitarist Paco de Lucía during one of his visits to Peru. De Lucía liked the sounds of this instrument so much that before leaving the country he bought a second cajón. Later he introduced the cajón to flamenco music."

I agree the most-cajon players are like electricguitarists or drummers. But I start to like it more.

quote:

On some recordings (e.g. Poveda's tango on 'Zaguán') you can hear an udu which is a Nigerian clay pot drum, sounds good too. Actually I'm not sure if that's what it is, maybe Kozz can tell us, he makes them.


Udu are used a lot, in India the are called Gathams, and somewhere else another name probably...
The same thechnique by dampening the holes in the udu's is now manuifactured in cajons also, so you can cover the hole to "tune" the bass.


But to get back to the subject....where's the line, if there's one?
I like the old-skool vibes, but the nuevo-guys have some awesome feeling for groove and funk.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 8:30:13
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Ricardo) 
well said, Ricardo - this is an interesting thread. That documentary was really great, fun to watch (especially at work when I feel like being a slacker haha!). I soaked it in like ... I dunno, like a big glass of wine I suppose
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 13:50:02
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to kozz) 
quote:

De Lucía liked the sounds of this instrument so much that before leaving the country he bought a second cajón. Later he introduced the cajón to flamenco music."


Just think...the whole sound of Flamenco could have changed forever if he'd liked the sound of the Cuica..

(I think the bit from 3:30 onwards is ultra cool!)




"The Clangers" was a popular kids TV programme in the UK in the 70's.

Did anyone in the States or elsewhere see it too?





cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 15:17:55
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
quote:

(I think the bit from 3:30 onwards is ultra cool!)


RON!!! are you crazy???!! Dont tell me you were able to listen to that for more than 10secs!!

If you make it through that without tinnitus,.. you´re the man!




quote:

Did anyone in the States or elsewhere see it too?


WTF?!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 17:52:55
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

RON!!! are you crazy???!! Dont tell me you were able to listen to that for more than 10secs!!

If you make it through that without tinnitus,.. you´re the man!


Hi Doit,

Well that guy is a virtuoso of the Cuica, but although I admire his skills, I must admit I'm not a fan of Cuico Solo....but I DO love it as part of a Samba group, making those "monkey in the jungle" sounds in the background!

(Ah...Rio de Janiero....Great memories!)

That video you posted was like someone scratching their nails on a blackboard!

quote:

WTF?!



Hmm...So I guess you've never seen "The Clangers" before?

The Clangers and The Magic Roundabout RULE, quite frankly!!

(I see you didn't have a proper childhood, Doit.. )

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:12:23
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
No I dont know the Clangers.. But we have this:



  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:27:24
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
I think Doits video has some really nice bits, just the violinist going way overboard too often...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:30:47
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
Jose Luis Monton is actually a good player and composer. One of the many guys who dont get proper recognition. That video mispresents him.

Extra for cajon lovers, look here around 6:00


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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:38:51
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

No I dont know the Clangers.. But we have this:


Is this Germany's "Secret Weapon"?

We have such a weapon too...

Forget spending billions of pounds on a replacement for the Trident nuclear submarine ultimate deterrent...

Just parachute Sir Cliff Richard down to a trouble spot, singing "Summer Holiday" or "Congratulations" and the armies will simply just lose the will to live..



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:43:09
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
quote:

Jose Luis Monton is actually a good player and composer. One of the many guys who dont get proper recognition. That video mispresents him.


Why monton? That is Paquete playing there. I like it. Groovy stuff. EDIT: Now I got it... You meant the video I posted! Right! Yeah, Monton is a great composer. I saw him with olga pericet. Awesome! EDIT END.

@Ron.. I heard things like that during my childhood... When I went with my parents to france by car...they played continuously such music in english.. I thought that was E. Presley... But.. Later when I saw some videos to the voices I heard.. They all turned out to be cheesy guys and women like in your video.. OMG!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:50:21
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

No I dont know the Clangers.. But we have this:


Is this Germany's "Secret Weapon"?

We have such a weapon too...


we too.....

ahmadinejad should consider this iranian guy as an alternative to a nuclear bomb



this is puro by the way

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:53:36
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
...... omg
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 18:58:05
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Arash) 
quote:

ahmadinejad should consider this iranian guy as an alternative to a nuclear bomb


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 19:01:14
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Arash) 
the most funny video that was EVER posted on this forum was the russian guy in a sniper outfit that was when the fakemenco discussion was heating up... i will never forget that video. Jason just linked it as "Crazy russian guy". Anyway your vid just reminded me a little of it.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 19:03:16
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Doitsujin) 
yeah doit, i know that vid,,
check out our iranian grandpas, much cooler than german grandpas



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 19:04:28
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Estevan) 
haha... yes Arash.. Well,.. I killed the video I posted. I realized that the title sounded racistic. So.. just let us entertain by the iranian guys you post.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 19:09:13
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

haha... yes Arash.. Well,.. I killed the video I posted. I realized that the title sounded racistic.


come on relax, we are not in a talk show with sarrazin, ....

and arabs have humor too....just like we persians....

Aron Khader explains here @ 0.43 that you can make jokes with arabs too.....



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 19:13:52
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Arash) 
That stuff is "Traditional" now Arash....it's been replaced by the Modern Flamenco Farting Electric Bass...

Now for some COOL stuff...


This is one of Pimientito's fellow countrymen...(Norwich)

(One of my all-time favourite songs actually!...)

It should be a standard at "The Last Night of the Proms" IMO..



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 19:16:51
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (in reply to Arash) 
quote:

and arabs have humor too....just like we persians....




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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2010 19:41:56
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