RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Puro or Nuevo Flamenco?
Puro
  22% (8)
Nuevo
  8% (3)
More Puro
  20% (7)
More Nuevo
  11% (4)
Equally Both
  37% (13)


Total Votes : 35
(last vote on : Dec. 7 2010 17:07:40) 


Message

Estevan -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 18:11:38)

quote:

Here is a dibujo of Planeta. One of two that are known, the other being the one Norman posted. http://www.flamenco-world.com/magazine/about/historia_del_flamenco/paginas/e12.htm

You guys can debate about history all you want (actually quite interesting reading for some of us...). I just think we should bring back those hats. (Or is it a tajine?)



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 18:29:14)

quote:

I just think we should bring back those hats.


A very practical fashion for keeping one's bottle of Mazanilla at just the right temperature, as in James Bond.

I actually wish they would get rid of the Cajon and bring back the jug thing that the kid plays in that Moraito video.

I love that 'bong' sound...[:D]... (really! ... way cooler than Cajon IMO)



cheers,

Ron



Estevan -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 18:54:06)

quote:

I actually wish they would get rid of the Cajon and bring back the jug thing that the kid plays in that Moraito video.

The one where they introduce it saying "this has never been tried in flamenco before"!
Yes it's nice.
quote:

I love that 'bong' sound...
...yeah, a couple of bong hits will make anything sound better [;)]
On some recordings (e.g. Poveda's tango on 'Zaguán') you can hear an udu which is a Nigerian clay pot drum, sounds good too. Actually I'm not sure if that's what it is, maybe Kozz can tell us, he makes them.

(But I agree the Junta de Andalucía really should turn its attention to the problem of cajonitis).



XXX -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 18:56:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NormanKliman
I agree with that, but I suppose that anyone who plays the guitar to feed their children will have a "hard" attitude about suffering and discipline.


They suffer because they have little money, not because it wouldnt be art if they didnt suffer. If second would be true, they wouldnt complain about it (but that would be masochistic tbh, and i dont share this attitude). In reality, people complain about new stuff because they simply dont like it, but instead of saying it straight they feel like giving a reason for it (its unflamenco, jazz, they dont suffer, etc...).

quote:

Most of today's guitarists would probably have a hard time playing like Marote.


most of yesterdays guitarrists too, just like not everybody today can play like Vicente. Copying a personal playing style is different from knowing how to play say a traditional falseta and i think we all know that moderners can play traditional stuff. Overall i have the feeling that modern players could play harder all the time, they just dont use it throughout.

"It's a big part of their culture." thanks! thats all i wanted to say.



Florian -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 20:18:12)

quote:

..I've seen two drawings that are supposed to represent El Planeta. One is here

http://www.horizonteflamenco.com/pagina.php?n=fillo


Oh thank god now i dont have to wonder what he looks like anymore [:D]...somehow i thought hed be taller



Ricardo -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 20:33:19)

Puro and "nuevo" are not opposing ideas. Puro just means pure. It is how something is interpreted and performed. Just playing old music is not "puro". And something pure can be composed or performed yesterday, today, or tomorrow. Traditional, nuevo, modern, etc, all need dates to be talked about in context, but puro needs no date.

Ricardo



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 20:42:00)

quote:

The one where they introduce it saying "this has never been tried in flamenco before"!


Hmm..I understood anyway that the jug was played as a percussion instrument in Villancicos from way back, even when no guitars were involved?

Maybe I'm wrong though Estevan...I just read things in books but have no personal knowledge.

I kinda get the gut feeling, however that this was not the first time it was ever played in Flamenco![:-][:D]


"La zambomba y la misa flamenca son las celebraciones más genuinas de la festividad católica andaluza. Se trata de la manifestación de una cultura oral de siglos, heredada de los mayores y oralmente transmitida de padres a hijos."

cheers,

Ron

(PS: BTW.. It was played in Scotland WAY before then! ..That's how we invented the Blues! [;)][:D])



Estevan -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 20:48:37)

quote:


Hmm..I understood anyway that the jug was played as a percussion instrument in Villancicos from way back, even when no guitars were involved?

Yes, the guy said that they're usually used in villancicos (which I was thinking of as 'not flamenco', but of course they can be), but I guess he meant that it hadn't been done with bulerias.



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 20:57:11)

quote:

but I guess he meant that it hadn't been done with bulerias.


Wow!

You mean NEVER EVER before!! [;)]

Shish! I'm glad Ondajerez were around to record that VERY MOMENT!!

(Just joking Estevan...[;)][:D])

cheers,

Ron



Estevan -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 21:05:50)

quote:

You mean NEVER EVER before!!

Yeah, amazing, innit? Introducing an impurity in public - no wonder the kid looked nervous![:D]

(Hmmm....I wonder when "knuckles on the table top" was first introduced)



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 23 2010 21:07:44)

quote:

Yeah, amazing, innit? Introducing an impurity in public - no wonder the kid looked nervous!


[:D][:D][:D]

cheers,

Ron



kozz -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 8:30:13)

quote:

I actually wish they would get rid of the Cajon and bring back the jug thing that the kid plays in that Moraito video.


You all know who is guilty to this! [:D]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caj%C3%B3n
"In the 1970s, Peruvian composer and cajón master Caitro Soto gave a cajón as a present to Spanish guitarist Paco de Lucía during one of his visits to Peru. De Lucía liked the sounds of this instrument so much that before leaving the country he bought a second cajón. Later he introduced the cajón to flamenco music."

I agree the most-cajon players are like electricguitarists or drummers. But I start to like it more.

quote:

On some recordings (e.g. Poveda's tango on 'Zaguán') you can hear an udu which is a Nigerian clay pot drum, sounds good too. Actually I'm not sure if that's what it is, maybe Kozz can tell us, he makes them.


Udu are used a lot, in India the are called Gathams, and somewhere else another name probably...
The same thechnique by dampening the holes in the udu's is now manuifactured in cajons also, so you can cover the hole to "tune" the bass.


But to get back to the subject....where's the line, if there's one?
I like the old-skool vibes, but the nuevo-guys have some awesome feeling for groove and funk.



ralexander -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 13:50:02)

well said, Ricardo - this is an interesting thread. That documentary was really great, fun to watch (especially at work when I feel like being a slacker haha!). I soaked it in like ... I dunno, like a big glass of wine I suppose [;)]



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 15:17:55)

quote:

De Lucía liked the sounds of this instrument so much that before leaving the country he bought a second cajón. Later he introduced the cajón to flamenco music."


Just think...the whole sound of Flamenco could have changed forever if he'd liked the sound of the Cuica..[:-]

(I think the bit from 3:30 onwards is ultra cool!)




"The Clangers" was a popular kids TV programme in the UK in the 70's.

Did anyone in the States or elsewhere see it too?





cheers,

Ron



Doitsujin -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 17:52:55)

quote:

(I think the bit from 3:30 onwards is ultra cool!)


RON!!! are you crazy???!! Dont tell me you were able to listen to that for more than 10secs!! [&:]

If you make it through that without tinnitus,.. you´re the man! [:D]




quote:

Did anyone in the States or elsewhere see it too?


WTF?!



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:12:23)

quote:

RON!!! are you crazy???!! Dont tell me you were able to listen to that for more than 10secs!!

If you make it through that without tinnitus,.. you´re the man!


Hi Doit,

Well that guy is a virtuoso of the Cuica, but although I admire his skills, I must admit I'm not a fan of Cuico Solo....but I DO love it as part of a Samba group, making those "monkey in the jungle" sounds in the background!

(Ah...Rio de Janiero....Great memories!)

That video you posted was like someone scratching their nails on a blackboard!

quote:

WTF?!



Hmm...So I guess you've never seen "The Clangers" before?

The Clangers and The Magic Roundabout RULE, quite frankly!! [:D]

(I see you didn't have a proper childhood, Doit..[:D])

cheers,

Ron



Doitsujin -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:27:24)

[:D][:D] No I dont know the Clangers.. But we have this:

[:@][:@]




Munin -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:30:47)

I think Doits video has some really nice bits, just the violinist going way overboard too often...



XXX -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:38:51)

Jose Luis Monton is actually a good player and composer. One of the many guys who dont get proper recognition. That video mispresents him.

Extra for cajon lovers, look here around 6:00



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:43:09)

quote:

No I dont know the Clangers.. But we have this:


Is this Germany's "Secret Weapon"?

We have such a weapon too...

Forget spending billions of pounds on a replacement for the Trident nuclear submarine ultimate deterrent...

Just parachute Sir Cliff Richard down to a trouble spot, singing "Summer Holiday" or "Congratulations" and the armies will simply just lose the will to live..[:D]



cheers,

Ron



Doitsujin -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:50:21)

quote:

Jose Luis Monton is actually a good player and composer. One of the many guys who dont get proper recognition. That video mispresents him.


Why monton? That is Paquete playing there. I like it. Groovy stuff. EDIT: Now I got it... You meant the video I posted! Right! Yeah, Monton is a great composer. I saw him with olga pericet. Awesome! EDIT END.

@Ron.. I heard things like that during my childhood... When I went with my parents to france by car...they played continuously such music in english.. I thought that was E. Presley... But.. Later when I saw some videos to the voices I heard.. They all turned out to be cheesy guys and women like in your video.. OMG!![:D]



Arash -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:53:36)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

No I dont know the Clangers.. But we have this:


Is this Germany's "Secret Weapon"?

We have such a weapon too...


we too.....

ahmadinejad should consider this iranian guy as an alternative to a nuclear bomb



this is puro by the way [:D]



Doitsujin -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 18:58:05)

...... omg



Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 19:01:14)

quote:

ahmadinejad should consider this iranian guy as an alternative to a nuclear bomb


[:D][:D][:D]



XXX -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 19:03:16)

the most funny video that was EVER posted on this forum was the russian guy in a sniper outfit [:D][:D][:D] that was when the fakemenco discussion was heating up... i will never forget that video. Jason just linked it as "Crazy russian guy". Anyway your vid just reminded me a little of it.



Arash -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 19:04:28)

yeah doit, i know that vid,,
check out our iranian grandpas, much cooler than german grandpas [:D]




Doitsujin -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 19:09:13)

haha... yes Arash.. Well,.. I killed the video I posted. I realized that the title sounded racistic. So.. just let us entertain by the iranian guys you post. [:)]



Arash -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 19:13:52)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

haha... yes Arash.. Well,.. I killed the video I posted. I realized that the title sounded racistic.


come on relax, we are not in a talk show with sarrazin, [:D]....

and arabs have humor too....just like we persians....

Aron Khader explains here @ 0.43 that you can make jokes with arabs too.....[:D]




Ron.M -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 19:16:51)

That stuff is "Traditional" now Arash....it's been replaced by the Modern Flamenco Farting Electric Bass...

Now for some COOL stuff...


This is one of Pimientito's fellow countrymen...(Norwich)

(One of my all-time favourite songs actually!...)

It should be a standard at "The Last Night of the Proms" IMO..[:D]



cheers,

Ron



Estevan -> RE: Puro or Nuevo Flamenco? (Sep. 24 2010 19:41:56)

quote:

and arabs have humor too....just like we persians....





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