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prnvalium

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Dec. 13 2008
 

Flamenco cante e-lessons 

I have six years of classical vocal training. I don't speak Spanish, but I'm used to singing songs in different languages. I want to learn to sing Flamenco.

Unfortunately I live at the bottom end of Australia and there is no thriving flamenco scene here. Can anybody recommend:
1) Some recordings or video lessons on cante
2) A book of written flamenco repertoire (songs and accompaniment) I can work with
3) List of scales/arpeggios I should be singing for flamenco

I know it's a long shot. Any help would be appreciated as I love this way of singing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 5:54:42
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13656
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco cante e-lessons (in reply to prnvalium

quote:

ORIGINAL: prnvalium

I have six years of classical vocal training. I don't speak Spanish, but I'm used to singing songs in different languages. I want to learn to sing Flamenco.

Unfortunately I live at the bottom end of Australia and there is no thriving flamenco scene here. Can anybody recommend:
1) Some recordings or video lessons on cante
2) A book of written flamenco repertoire (songs and accompaniment) I can work with
3) List of scales/arpeggios I should be singing for flamenco

I know it's a long shot. Any help would be appreciated as I love this way of singing.


ummm, I want to be a heavy metal singer. But I was not born to do it.

Honestly you should work on becoming a good aficionado FIRST. That means collect recordings and really develop a taste for both the kinds of singers you like, and the song forms that move you the most. there is no "training" for flamenco, all the best singers were simply born doing it. Anyone else singing flamenco usually is because they are aficionados of it and sing just for fun and friends in a juerga, or they were a guitarist or dancer and it helped them understand their own art better, or any of those and lack of singers in an area outside of spain made them very reluctantly fill the vacancy of an important job to make a flamenco show.

Keep in mind some of the best flamenco singers in history were amaturs by self definition because they have such a respect for the thing. People like Borrico and Zambo for example. Sorry but not you or anyone else can sing like that. But nothing wrong with exploring it seriously for yourself. If you find you are getting this thing (after some SEROUS listening and studying of recordings), I recommend you find the BEST flamenco dance teacher in your area and see if you can help the class. It will make an aficionado of singing understand better the structure of the songs, and helps the dance students too. Remember an advanced dance teacher probably knows WAY more about cante then you so even though you are singing you need to respect that and do what you are told.

There is a DVD series called "Rito y Geografia del Cante Flamenco" I recommend you to watch it all before even trying to sing.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 8:33:13
 
prnvalium

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Dec. 13 2008
 

RE: Flamenco cante e-lessons (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks Ricardo,

There were some useful suggestions in there apart from the warnings not to even bother:) Learning to sing is a journey, like learning to play the guitar. He might have had natural talent when he was born, but Camaron De La Isla improved with practice, repetition and commitment. And I'm pretty sure Paco de Lucia didn't pop out of the womb with a Conde all strung and ready to go.

So recommend artists, learning DVDs and recordings and I'll be happy. And give some encouragement!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 10:18:26
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 12:36:02
 
mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Flamenco cante e-lessons (in reply to prnvalium

Even as a beginner/intermediate guitarist I'm feeling more and more that I need to learn spanish properly, in particular the language used in cante - which means studying the culture. I feel I want to know the words and what's behind them, even if I'm just accompaniment.

I don't think you have to be born a cantaor/cantaora. I would say it is possible to find your voice within flamenco and even do it with authenticity. I think you need to approach it differently than those born into the culture though. It's definitely not easy - It's a LONG path no matter how trained you might be as a singer. There's a lot of technique involved, but that's just part of it. I think the artistic process can be quite extensive, at least before you reach a point where people who know about flamenco will be convinced by your singing.

My opinion is based on the non-spanish singers I've come in contact with, of which one is my friend. Ricardo might be more sensitive than me (he's definitely more experienced), and perhaps I'm biased because I'm working with a 'foreign singer'. I still think it's possible. But even I have to say that statistically most 'foreign cantaors' leave me unconvinced.

You need to find conviction and meaning, the music and lyrics have to make sense to you. In my opinion all this goes for flamenco guitar playing as well. I would guess most of us here wrestle with these questions of authenticity at some point or other.

It takes A LOT of dedication and artistic sense, so you really need to be properly hooked. As Ricardo points out. You'll need to become a good aficionado. I would add: while keeping your integrity

I think David Sorroche is working on a method for cante, you might want to check him out.

There's a DVD series by Merenguito called Cante Flamenco - Paso a paso, no clue how useful it is though.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 13:54:30
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Flamenco cante e-lessons (in reply to prnvalium

quote:

Unfortunately I live at the bottom end of Australia and there is no thriving flamenco scene here. Can anybody recommend:


hey mate ...where are you ? maybe i can reccomend some people to get in touch with


First of all i apllaud your courage and dedication...and i dont think its impossible...its the hardest (harder then beeing a convincing dancer , guitarist etc..)..but not impossible...all depends on you..

If i had to plan something like this ...heres some things i would do..make no mistake its hard (but you allready know that)...and many will say you cant...but the truth is its entierly up to you..and its not imposible, how convincing you are depends on your attention to detail and dedication to autenticity IMO..

I would imediatly book spanish lessons (at the same time i would listen to alot of flamenco..learn about the palos from the internet...books, foro flamenco ask detailed specific questions as you need the answers.. for example upload a audio of a melody and ask specific questions about it)

Thing is you dont need to know all of the styles and expecially in australia where what we do is depending on the dancers and dance schools do...besides even the best singers only had about 4 or 5 Palos they were really good at ..

SO start small and practical and structured ..set small realistic goals..

For Example..Tangos its 4/4 so its probably the closest easyest transition

And you dont have to learn a whole solo...all the flamenco songs are made up of litlle sometimes unrelating verses..(letras)
So instead of trying to learn a song from top to bottom brake it down into letras..and do it that way

So say you beging with.. Tangos, Alegrias, Bulerias, Solea, Seguiryas thats a great base plus once you understand this forms you will get as great jump start on the rest as they are all related...


learn about 3 or 4 letras for each....so while listening to as much flamenco as you can get your hands on recreationaly ...also have a system and pick one and really focus on it, and disect it, and find different examples and find the characteristics of it..ask questions about it here...theres some guys who have great knowlodge of cante Ricardo beeing amongst them..

Get in touch with Jason Mcguire ..his ad is at the top of this page..he has flamenco lessons for guitarrists but also has a brilliant singer he works with...ask him what the chances of skype lessons are with the singer..

this page will also be usefull ..its intended for guitarists but ..its brilliant for you cause u can see the chords and modes as you hear the voice and there is alot of material there..

http://www.youtube.com/user/reinaldos7

and take full advantage of foro flamenco as i said theres amazing experience here and once you have specific detailed questions you will get specific detailed answers

And ofcourse down the track as you have learned spanish fluently and understand more about the compas and keys theres no substitute for visiting spain...

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 15:59:24
 
veet

 

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: Flamenco cante e-lessons (in reply to prnvalium

orbvalium:
I applaud your cojones!

I've been studying cante hard core for about 9 years, with teachers in Spain and L.A., and every workshop that comes thru town. Starting to get pretty good.

Books I'd recommend:
Cante por Cante - Gamboa. It's a discolibro, with letras, etc. All Spanish, but invaluable.

Merengue de Cordoba Encuentro series. He has one on accompanying cante, very good.

Also good to do: find a dance class that needs cante and rehearse with them, often they work towards a student show, and cante is a great addition. Good oppo to practice, hardest thing is to learn your cues, and avoid the dancers' dirty looks when you blow it...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 17:06:05
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Flamenco cante e-lessons (in reply to prnvalium

good on you veet this is just the kind of encouragement he needed to see

and btw congratulations man !!! when are you gonna contribuite some cante track for our cante accomp paractices ??

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 17:10:45
 
prnvalium

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Dec. 13 2008
 

RE: Flamenco cante e-lessons (in reply to prnvalium

Thanks guys. That will give me some ideas for getting going. Florian: I'm in Hobart.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 18:41:19
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