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RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wrist for Picado?   You are logged in as Guest
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[Poll]

Do you use a flexed or flat wrist for Picado?
Picado with wrist straight w/ fingers more bent
  46% (20)
Picado with flexed wrist w/ fingers straighter
  53% (23)


Total Votes : 43
(last vote on : Sep. 2 2018 6:28:20) 
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Ricardo

Posts: 14826
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

Thank you very much for the input on picado. I´ll include that into my practice. I also made the experience that my picado becomes slower (less control) when I use protection on the nails coz of heavy strumming for dance... Thats bad..I need to protect because otherwise my nails break for sure,..and its bad for control. :.//

Nail shape will fix that doit. File flat and you wont get that extra resistance when you put on your "protection".

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2010 13:42:46
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to ToddK) 
It's simple: the larger the surface area that touches the string, the more friction there is. The result is more force needed to make the sound, which brings unwanted tension and slows you down. Doit, I've been playing with acrylic and fake nails, so I know what you are talking about.

Try thinning just the very edge of the nail. That should still give you enough protection for all your rasgueados.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2010 13:49:04
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Grisha) 
quote:

Make sure that you exercise not just index and middle, but also ring and index fingers. Middle and ring are optional.


hey grisha, can you tell your reasoning behind this? i practice i,m and m,a but never i,a because the feeling and speed is so close to i,m, even without practice. i want to know if i'm missing out on something.

i tried this flat wrist position today and wow, what a difference. some things i noticed are:
1. the difference in length between i and m is less noticeable.
2. when changing strings, the general distance the hand/arm needs to travel is decreased.
3. switching to or from any other technique is easier.
4. more stability, sticking out the pinky seems to give a bit of "balance" as well.
5. more bite.
6. it's easy to see how people can be confused and think the middle joint is doing the work.

i changed my arpeggio position to bent fingers/flat wrist as well to test it out and i liked the sound more. what an eye opening thread.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2010 14:59:39
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to ToddK) 
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2010 17:40:44

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

I bet, sorry to sound pessimistic, in 2 years you will bottom out around 175 bpm.


Why, is that where you bottomed out??

Oh yee of little faith....

2 years. You'll see.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2010 2:58:40
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to ToddK) 
quote:

Nail shape will fix that doit. File flat and you wont get that extra resistance when you put on your "protection".


My nails are like paper... I need protection.. yaeh you know.. .. flexible...but resistant..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2010 5:36:51
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14826
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to ToddK) 
quote:

Why, is that where you bottomed out??


Exactly. you'll see....

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 0:01:59
 
stratos13

 

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Ricardo) 
I used to play with a friend, who is a proffesional guitarist, and has a great picado, very fast and strong and clean.
He didn't study with a metronome. One day i suggested we measured his speed.
He seemed very comfortable at 195-200bpm (4notes/beat), with long scales and around 205 or something he toped.
The strange thing was that when i dropped the metronome at 150-160 or something, he started losing many notes!

Another player i know with amazing picado, also did not use the metronome. He just said of his learning technique. "Play very slowly the passage, and with very small movements, and keep playing each scale over and over, very very slowly. Even when you watch tv. In little time you will be able to play it very fast."

So it is quite possible that with the metronome you sort of limit yourself.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 0:18:54

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Exactly. you'll see....


Why do you think 175 is the wall? What have you seen of all the players you
know, and places you've been, that would lead you to make that statement.

Im curious. Do you think its a hereditary fast twitch muscle tissue thing, or what?

T

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 1:14:36
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14826
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to ToddK) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

quote:

Exactly. you'll see....


Why do you think 175 is the wall? What have you seen of all the players you
know, and places you've been, that would lead you to make that statement.

Im curious. Do you think its a hereditary fast twitch muscle tissue thing, or what?

T


Really I just want to challenge you more since you seem competative and like to proove things that you can do things. I know you would remember what I said and make an awesome video to show us you did it despite what I sad, and that is inspiring. Just figured my comment would give you some more fuel to work on it.

I will say however you should be quite proud of 175 in 2 years. I think if you can play those lines in Zyrab at the band's tempo (190), you could probably join paco on tour. I have seen even Cañizares get stuck on those runs and get mad at himself.

Thing is I, like yourself, developed speed with the pick when I was a teen. The fastest flamenco players did the same as teens but with fingers. Paco was the same speed as a teen as when he was in his 30's. I switched to fingers in my 20's. Everyday since my left hand has been looking down at my right and saying "so when are you gonna get with me on this thing!"

I admit everyday I get closer but it seems sort of like achieving light speed. The closer I get, the more things slow down. I jumped many bpm 10 years ago. Now I progress at fractions of a metronome tick it seems. On a good warm day I might be able to do those zyrab licks, but not with any sort of confidence I still have with a pick.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 7:48:08

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Really I just want to challenge you more since you seem competative and like to proove things that you can do things. I know you would remember what I said and make an awesome video to show us you did it despite what I sad, and that is inspiring. Just figured my comment would give you some more fuel to work on it.


aahhhhhahahah, you bastard!!! Yeah, it worked great!! haha

I wore my nails down bigtime last night working on it.

Yeah, i hear ya on the pick thing. Here i am just starting with index/middle alternation at age 40.
My left hand is like "um, catch up!!" Its frustrating, but fun at the same time.

I will keep working on it, and what ever happens, as long as i can play the pieces i like, i'll be happy.
There's always some long picado run here or there that trips me up, but all in all, i get most satisfaction from non picado falsettas. It would just be nice to roll through picado runs, and not have to fight with them.

I gotta get up there for a lesson from you soon man. I need some new material.
You gotta show me some Gerardo stuff. Preferably non-picado falsettas!!!

Thanks for the never ending inspiration and knowledge you give us here dude.

You are the man....

TK

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 13:28:04
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ricardo) 
[Deleted by Admins]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2010 19:24:35
 
chapman_g

 

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Guest) 
Question? so how fast is fast enough for quality professionals? If Ricardo, Grisha, or Jason come into town and I want to jam with them and trade picado licks what is the minimum speed that is fast enough for a professional level?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2010 11:20:44
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to ToddK) 
TK - we're a little less than 2 months away from the "2 years to 200bpm" goal you set in Jan of 2010.

How's it coming? Already there? (Probably!)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2011 15:55:27
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to turnermoran) 
Funny one this , and Im probably not the best one to get advice from as Im just getting into it , I found that after a long time i just couldnt get any better , i kinda bottomed out but at a really low level, and so i started experimenting just recently with right hand positions . The main thing I found was to move my whole hand forward , meaning away from the bridge and more toward the sound hole.. this has had a huge effect on playing and sound , although I am not exactly used to it yet , it seems much easier to play fast and a bit more flamenco , of course now i have a slightly bigger movement to make between one thing and another , I will keep this up for a while and see how it settles in.
so as for the right hand playing position I saw on page 1 of this I would have to choose Pepe Romero type hand position looks a bit more like mine ( I never thought I would have anything in common with him !!)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2011 16:35:54
 
gaash

 

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul. 29 2011
 

RE: Do you use a flexed or flat wris... (in reply to Ricardo) 
I've found sticking to one method was more important for me than which method it was. I don't find much difference.. I feel like maybe the 'grisha' way I can get a higher top speed on very simple runs but the 'paco' way is a bit more relaxing/smoother for me if I had to pinpoint something.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2011 23:20:20
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