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What defines the identity of a performance? Read my explanation under the poll before voting pls...   You are logged in as Guest
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[Poll]

What defines the identity of a performance? Read my explanation under the poll before voting pls...


It is a mixed bulerias. I would not relate it to one specific piece.
  45% (5)
I would call it andalucian aire because the intro was takenfrom there.
  9% (1)
I would call it flamenco olé coz the majority was derived from it.
  9% (1)
I would relate it to the song of the singer. Cante is most important.
  36% (4)


Total Votes : 11


(last vote on : Dec. 22 2009 10:54:27) 
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Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

What defines the identity of a perfo... 

Just an example that made me thinking.

Here the example of a TV-performance of Sabicas.

Sabicas performs together with a singer.
2 falsetas (around 16 seconds) from the composition "andalucian aire" (just to keep it abstract..) , and all the rest of the video were singing and falsetas from the composition "flamenco olé". (singing 3 min, falsetas from flamenco olé 4min)

The first 6 seconds intro was the intro of "andalucian aire".

So.. because Im unsure I want to ask you how you would call the bulerias performance.

Finally a nice chance to test the poll tool!

Im curious if anybody takes the poll.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 0:53:43
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

well, thats interesting.
i would vote for mixed bulerias, but then again, you have to call it something more specific. no?

if someone would have asked sabicas, what the name of this piece is, what would have HE answered?

i think he would start to explain everything, almost like doits explanation to the interviewer and leave it to others to name the piece ?

hmm......

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 3:21:19
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

Doitsujin describes a performance like he has a stick up his ass!

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 6:57:32
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Ramon Amira

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 7:53:24
 
edguerin

Posts: 1591
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

Here the example of a TV-performance

Where?

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 7:57:45
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

he has a stick up his ass!


Any particular reason this “image” is so recurrent in your posts, Prom?

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 8:37:35
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to gj Michelob

It only recurs in reply to, and as an allusion to, Doitsujin's crude comment that "Paco Pena plays as though he has a stick up his ass."

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 8:41:58
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

It only recurs in reply to, and as an allusion to, Doitsujin's crude comment that "Paco Pena plays as though he has a stick up his ass."




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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 8:49:29
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

ok, i think if anybody would like to fight back and push a stick up someone elses a$s, please go to the modern vs tradition or "what do you think of" thread and do that, as those threads are the best places for bumf....g anyway.

but don't contaminate other threads

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 9:08:00
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

I also think it would get no name when it is a mixed bulerias. But when a famous tocaor like Sabicas or Paco de Lucia would play the majority of the time and use his flasetas one may call it as the composition where most of the falsetas come from. Maybe it depends also on how important a guitarist is. Or the singer.

quote:


quote:Doitsujin
Here the example of a TV-performance
quote: edguerin
Where?

Its an abstract example.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 16:03:49
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

original: Prominent Critic
"Paco Pena plays as though he has a stick up his ass."


So you finally changed youre mind. Fine. What in particular makes you think Paco Pena has a stick up his ass?

As you see I didnt quote you correctly, as you did with me. I never wrote what you are telling there.. Read more carefully. But this is topic of another thread. I wont argue here anymore.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 16:12:57
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15032
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

I talked about this a lot before. Even with cante, there might be a lot of specific things but you can't title a performance with EVERYTHING that was played or sang, it would be ridiculous. But it IS important for aficionados to either know, or learn, what and where each one of those things came from originally. That is the beauty of both improvising in flamenco, and being a good aficionado to recognize what is going on.

"mixed bulerias" would be my vote, but actually "bulerias" would be enough for me.

Here is an example. Guitar plays Paco's Granaina, and later solea, as intros, singer sings Alegrias and fandangos....but the title is "milonga".


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 16:48:57
 
cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Arash

What? That was LOL funny s**t! I almost spilled my beer! But I agree, it probably is time to change the channel. We all can have sticks up our bummys on occasion. That is what I have learned!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 19:51:14
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

well, if it wasn't for cd's, these falsetas wouldn't even have a name or a place of origin. plus, i never look at track names. so i never really know what comes from where, just who plays it. so mixed bulerias for me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 22:41:12
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

I would relate it to the song of the singer. Cante is most important


Not because cante is the most important, but Sabicas wouldn't have played a few very happy falsetta's when the cante is about that you have lost a dear family member.
It's like watching Dracula with Madonna, it just doesn't fit.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2009 23:17:10
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