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I want to start a discussion about how to properly take care of an old guitar that you intend to use as a main instrument.
I am playing a K Yairi 1973 flamenco guitar model 1160. the specs I could find are.
cedar top, cypress back and sides, mahogany neck 660 scale... Ebony fingerboard and brazilian rosewood head stock No lamination on back or sides
I would appreciate any advice on how to care for it...
my other question is... how careful do I need to be with the cedar top? I have read discussions from "Hard players" such as JM. who have cracked tops... do i need to take special care with my golpe?
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
marduk-- a few years ago i bought a 39 year old ramirez with a cedar top that had only one crack (repaired) and the crack was away from any golpe location. the area below the treble tap plate had a little wear to the lacquer where errant fingernails hit but was in structurally good condition. i suspect the ramirez was more lightly built than your guitar. the rules for guitar care apply equally to an older instrument as to a younger instrument--hydrate when humidity is low; dehydrate when the humidity is high, keep the guitar in a case when not played, etc. etc.
since the guitar has seen some years, much like humans, things may be wearing out--frets, glue becoming weak, neck angle changing, etc. those would be the issues of concern for me not if i am going to turn my cedar top guitar into a runner-up to willie nelson's guitar. there are a lot of cedar top ramirez flamenco guitars out there without holes or cracks at the golpe locations.
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
thanks keith
so far everything seems to be in good shape, it was modified once (but as far as I know that was just to replace the original pegs with planetary pegs)
it will have a visit to a local luthier soon so that it can be looked over for anything I may not have thought to check, but there is only a couple of surface marks, and one small but scratch (that shouldnt cause any problems)
its a great guitar! I am loving the scale lengh and it is inspiring me
Posts: 3446
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
I have a 1967 cedar/cypress Ramirez 1a that I have had since it was new. Since cedar is soft, the top has quite a few small marks and dings, but no major scratches. The guitar has been stable all its life.
During the first twenty years of its life the guitar lived in Austin, Texas except for a year and a half in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The humidity varies considerably from winter to summer in Austin. It's very humid in Baton Rouge. During this time the guitar was in a plywood double arch case, but no humidity control.
In 1987 the guitar moved to Palo Alto, California. It can be pretty dry in Palo Alto. At this point the guitar received an airtight Mark Leaf flight case, complete with hygrometer to measure the humidity. It never fell below 45%.
In 1988 the guitar moved to Santa Barbara, California. I lived practically on the coast, but above the fog most of the time.
In 1991 the guitar moved to Kwajalein in the Marshall Islands, in the Central Pacific. It's 90% humidity outdoors all the time on this tiny island. Indoor humidity was around 60%, where the guitar stayed all the time except when it was traveling.
After getting its flight case in 1987 the guitar traveled extensively, putting on more than a million miles (1.6 million kilometers) as checked baggage on airliners, traveling to every continent except Antarctica. It experienced a wide variety of weather conditions, ranging from very dry heated houses in winter to the rainy season in Indonesia--but in air conditioned hotel rooms.
The only precaution was to allow the guitar a few hours to come to ambient temperature after its cold ride in the airplane hold, before opening the case.
Since January, 2010 the guitar has been back in Austin, going through the dry winter and humid summer, but in its airtight case with an Oaais humidifier.
In summary, the guitar has seen a wide variety of climates, with only moderate care. It has remained stable and sounds great. It doesn't get played as much as my spruce blanca, but it doesn't get totally neglected.
Advice: get an Oasis humidifier or equivalent, and protect you guitar from drier than 45% humidity.
I've seen at least a dozen of these cedar/cyoress Ramirez from the 1960s an 1970s, but never one with a crack under or near the golpeador. I don't think you need to worry about cracking your guitar with golpes, but I would recommend looking out for humidity.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
My sobrinos de esteso is also 39 years old. It was stiff when I first acquired it but after some years it is super smooth to play. All it needed was new bone new strings and some love. So just change the strings and play it all the time and it will be fine. When not playing keep it in the case.
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
My sobrinos de esteso is also 39 years old. It was stiff when I first acquired it but after some years it is super smooth to play. All it needed was new bone new strings and some love. So just change the strings and play it all the time and it will be fine. When not playing keep it in the case.
Ricardo
Ricardo, do you bother with stuff like humidifiers? I have two amazing guitars made by Stephen Kakos and feel bad about not going beyond just keeping them in their cases when I don't play them... I don't think I've ever used a humidifier... I just feel like all that stuff is superfluous...
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to Bulerias2005)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bulerias2005
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
My sobrinos de esteso is also 39 years old. It was stiff when I first acquired it but after some years it is super smooth to play. All it needed was new bone new strings and some love. So just change the strings and play it all the time and it will be fine. When not playing keep it in the case.
Ricardo
Ricardo, do you bother with stuff like humidifiers? I have two amazing guitars made by Stephen Kakos and feel bad about not going beyond just keeping them in their cases when I don't play them... I don't think I've ever used a humidifier... I just feel like all that stuff is superfluous...
for older guitars usually not but it depends on the frets if they poke out the guitar is dangerously dry so a week or so of humidity control is needed.
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
thanks for the detailed information guys, I appreciate it. I am going for the home made humidifier for a while then I will buy one of those silly looking ones that is on the market. whenever i stop playing I always put it back in its case (this has been a habit with any guitar I have except my lounge one)
it will definately get played a lot. it is inspiring me a lot!
I actually quite enjoyed reading the story of your guitar Richard... it must be great to spend that much time with an instrument!
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
marduk--not sure where you live or your living style but if you live in an area where it gets humid but not hot enough for A/C, there is a product called Eva-Dry which is a portable de-humidifier that can be put into many cases (the little box area for strings and such) which will reduce the humidity inside of the case by about 10 points. the portable de-humidifiers use glass bead technology and once the beads become saturated one just plugs the unit into an electrical outlet and the beads dry out. i live in the northeast and for most of the summer it is not hot enough for A/C but it can become muggy and the Eva-Dry really works in this situation. i find that when the humidity gets high guitars often times will let us know of their displeasure.
yes, richard does have great stories to tell. one day i would like to know if his guitars made it up to machu picchu as it appears the photo of richard was taken there.
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
A guitar that is 39 years old shouldnt be more fragile if it was well built and taken care of. The most important is to keep it in a case and check humidity. Be carefull when humidity changes radically. Thats when wood warps and cracks. The guitar should do well with anything between 30 and 80% Rh , but its the sudden changes that hurts. The worst is when going from very dry to very humid and then back to very dry. Second worst is when going from a long period of very humid to very dry. Best is when the sun is shining, not to hot and the girls start taking their clothes off. Thats when flamenco guitars really sing. Warm summer nights with red wine or dry sherry are also very popular amongst flamenco guitars.
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to marduk)
quote:
Best is when the sun is shining, not to hot and the girls start taking their clothes off. Thats when flamenco guitars really sing. Warm summer nights with red wine or dry sherry are also very popular amongst flamenco guitars.
I will drink to that :)
thanks for the advice. this is such a bit step up from any guitar I have owned before, that I am just trying to do the right thing by it :) I am not actually worried that im going to break it
I do appreciate the info about humidity (i have been reading about that lately)
Posts: 3446
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: caring for a 39 year old guitar? (in reply to keith)
quote:
ORIGINAL: keith one day i would like to know if his guitars made it up to machu picchu as it appears the photo of richard was taken there.
Guitars didn't make it to Machu Picchu.
We went to Carnaval in Rio de Janeiro, then to Lima, Cusco and Machu Picchu. I really liked Cusco. I've been around Latin America a bit. Cusco has that colonial atmosphere, very few modern buildings, and those few tastefully blended in. Not much oxygen in the air, though. It's above 11,000 feet (3,350 meters)!
Machu Picchu is fantastic of course. There is a hotel right at the ruins. In the bar a group from Cusco was playing on panpipes, guitar and charango. They were virtuosos. Most of what they played was Quechua folklore based, but just to show they could do it, they played the William Tell Overture. They didn't leave out any notes.
The Ramirez had been to Rio a couple of times before, so I didn't feel bad about leaving it at home.
Saw this lovely little brunette at the station for the train that goes up to the big statue of Christ on Corcovado in Rio de Janeiro. I asked Larisa to go back and get a photo with her, knowing that if I tried to take her picture, her mother would probably call the cops...