A 2008 challenge? (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 6 2008 8:18:05)

I've just been watching a BBC TV programme about choosing the best "tribute" acts to represent folk like Madonna, Rod Stewart, Frank Sinatra etc.
Interesting....some of them were really pretty good!

When this Forum first started years ago, anyone who uploaded a couple of rasgueados was considered "muy Flamenco" [:D]

Since then the quality has expanded exponentially, with even some World Class playing being uploaded.

So here is the ForoFlamenco 2008 challenge to all the hotshot guitarists here.

Wait for it..........





"El Tempúl" from PdL's "Fantasia Flamenca" album.

Apart from the very fast picado, it's not really that difficult in today's terms.

It's allowable to "alter" it to suit your own technique (ie miss out or substitute really hard bits).

The person who gets closest to the same Paco sound and "energy" of the piece is the winner voted for by ForoFlamenco members and aficionados.

A challenge indeed, which can only improve every serious player's technique.

Just a "fun" thing...the finals being in December 2008, so plenty of time to practise...[;)]

Anyone up for it?

Jeez...I might even have a go myself..[:D]

cheers,

Ron



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Ron.M -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 6 2008 8:37:02)

quote:

My money's on Grisha... or Ricardo!


Hi Bash,
I'm pretty sure Grisha will handle the fast picado parts no problem, but how about the rest of it?
I'm sure this piece is within the range of a lot of guitarists here (excluding the fast picado).

cheers,

Ron



Ron.M -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 6 2008 8:56:31)

The more I think about this, the more I like it! [:D]

It would be nice and friendly ([;)]) if throughout the year, candidates could upload the odd falseta, so others will know what the competition is like and perhaps make them either smile or work to raise their game.
But if you want to wait until the last and blow everybody away...then it's up to you!
(But I don't think that is really within the spirit of the Forum myself.)

cheers,

Ron



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Ron.M -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 6 2008 23:23:58)

quote:

...let's vote on a palo and make it due by march 31,


This is the trouble with democracy IMO. [:D]

There will be heaps of ideas, suggestions and arguments...folk will want to play their own favourite palos etc etc.. and at the end of it nothing at all will get done as usual.

Sometimes a liberal helping of Fascism is required now and then. [:D]

Your idea of choosing a palo for quarterly uploads is good.

But El Tempúl is the challenge for December.[:D]

It's not about whether you like the piece or not, it's about can you do it.

cheers,

Ron



Stu -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 0:54:46)

So has anyone got the tab for El tempul???



Rain -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 1:56:50)

Excellent idea Ron. I can only see good coming from your proposed challenge.

Count me in.



Francisco -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 1:57:10)

My money is on guy.[;)]

Seriously tho, can't wait to see some of the uploads.



duende -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 2:09:54)

i got fauchers tab for it



Pimientito -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 2:38:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

"El Tempúl" from PdL's "Fantasia Flamenca" album.

Apart from the very fast picado, it's not really that difficult in today's terms.



I have Fauchers tab too and I tackled this piece a couple of years ago. I am not sure that I agree with it being not that difficult. Early paco stuff sounds easy to the ear because it is played so cleanly and musically is not so complex.....however it is technically very demanding....you have set quite a challenge. I remember breaking it into 8 falsetas. Learn 1 every couple of weeks and then put it together. Should be possible to perform in 3 months with practice (unless you are Grisha)



Doitsujin -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 2:55:49)

I dont have the audio and the tab either.. [:(] But I heared it in past for shure.



Ron.M -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 3:05:26)

quote:

musically is not so complex.....however it is technically very demanding


I agree fully, Pimientito....it stretches basic technique to the limit.
You've got to be precise and clean.
Nowhere to "hide" as you sometimes can with modern stuff.

cheers,

Ron



Anders Eliasson -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 3:12:40)

Good idea, but I agree with Pimiento... Its not that easy and I´m not going to have the time or energy for learning it. At this moment I prefer working much more basic stuff. Falsetas are boring me.[;)]



Arash -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 3:15:32)

quote:

Anyone up for it?

Jeez...I might even have a go myself..


Ron. You Liar.
I bet you are practicing this piece since 5 years now and act as if you want to start together with us.

quote:

This is the trouble with democracy IMO.


But i agree on this one. You know why!


p.s. j/k
[:D][:D][:D]



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Rain -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 4:00:03)

There is no doubt that this is a dificult piece, hence the word challenge comes to play. However, when you challenge yourself, only good could come from it.

Shroomy, I just downloaded the tab, thanx for the link, do not let the lack of left hand fingering worry you, the notes that follow and proceed the falsettas should have you thinking of fingering in a logical manner. If it were written out in standard notation, thats another matter, but its in tab so left hand fingering should be easier.



Pimientito -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 5:07:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shroomy726
And don't even tell me about the i a i with golpe rasgueo, that's just insane!


That's my favorate bit![:D][:D] I leave out the golpe here.

quote:

It's allowable to "alter" it to suit your own technique (ie miss out or substitute really hard bits).


Anyone who can copy this piece using the same technique as paco de lucia with the same "aire" is probably professional anyway. I would suggest anyone attempting this to aim for 3/4 speed of the original recording and get the falsetas one at a time rather than tackling the whole piece. Some of them are harder than others. If you cant use his technique to get a falseta, use another one that is easier. Ultimately good compas and clean technique will sound better than trying to play it too fast or at a technically too high level.......Paco is a machine!! Don't despair!



duende -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 5:25:26)

i just slowed it donw in cubase, gone use it to play along with.



Ricardo -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 5:46:14)

quote:

"El Tempúl" from PdL's "Fantasia Flamenca" album.

Apart from the very fast picado, it's not really that difficult in today's terms.

It's allowable to "alter" it to suit your own technique (ie miss out or substitute really hard bits).


OK. But yeah, you are way wrong about difficulty level. Even musically, the 2nd to last falseta has some tough contratiempos that most won't be able to keep on. It is really a very advanced piece by any standard or time period. If we CAN do our own "altered" technique, it is doable by anyone.[;)]

For example that a i or m i (I believe it to be anyway a combo) rasg. w/golpes everyother beat. OK, who ever can do THAT at the proper tempo, is the winner IMO. Even Tomatito does not do that. Although I did remember a Chicuelo video and he did a shorter version of that technique. With alterations, sure most of us could get close.

You could say NO alterations, and then it is really about tempo. Lots of us could do it proper slower, the entire piece even, but then it becomes about who is the fastest...no?

I think it would be fair if folks that realize it is not at their level, pick ONE falseta from the piece and try to contribute just that much. I admit I can already play about 3 or 4 falsetas from this tune, close or at tempo.

I won't load anything until Ron does first![:D]



Matic -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 6:45:50)

quote:

i a i with golpe rasgueo



Tell me please Ramon did those golpes...[&:][&:][&o]



eh... I'll just go with Anders.



Ron.M -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 7:55:04)

quote:

OK. But yeah, you are way wrong about difficulty level.


Ricardo my man!!

I can tell from your post that you are already considering it, as is ToddK and
others.
I know the possibility is running through that brain of yours...[:D]

Sure it's a no-nonsense bit of guitar playing almost 40 years old now.

It's pretty frightening for sure, because the technique is being totally exposed.

We are not asking anybody to reproduce the track note for note.

I can think of at least six members who could do a pretty good rendition.
And a further six who may surprise us and who knows who's "lurking".

For instance, I was totally blown away by Callioglu, who suddenly came out of nowhere!

But do your own interpretation and try to get as close to that energy as you can, in a fun "well...hey let's have a go" way.

For instance...I can't play any picado at all!
So I'll try to work out ligado or thumb alternatives etc.

The main thing is the "energy"

It is a challenge.

But that is the Forum challenge for 2008

We have already had great uploads of Zapateado en Re, Guajiras de Lucia and Impetu... why has it dropped off?

These are not easy pieces.

Anyway the challenge still stands.

The winner will receive this Silver Plated 6.5" cup on behalf of the Forum and will be inscribed ..

"ForoFlamenco Worldwide 2008 Flamenco Guitarist of the Year Award
...WINNER'S NAME
for the best interpretation of "El Tempul" by Paco de Lucia."

In addition your name will be featured on the Home Page as Flamenco Guitarist of the Year.

Not great moneywise.. but..

THINK OF THE HONOUR!! [:D]


cheers,

Ron


PS: I'm sad there wasn't a 2007 cup, because it would have surely gone to flamencoguru for his brave and great upload of Impetu.
These are what challenges are all about IMO.



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Mark2 -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 10:48:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo


For example that a i or m i (I believe it to be anyway a combo) rasg. w/golpes everyother beat. OK, who ever can do THAT at the proper tempo, is the winner IMO.


What's your best guess on the moves for this passage? I'd have to agree that anyone who can nail that part has something really good going on. I'm going to see if i can grab parts of the tune in the spirit of the foro, but I also think to play the piece near tempo is as hard as it gets. I won't be expecting the cup..............



cathulu -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 11:54:33)

Sounds cool, I may try a small part given I have a year to nail it. Is the idea that members upload video or audio? I think it would be more interesting if the vote was based on Video which I hope would lead to some entertaining versions.

I was on Emule and there is a link for a GP3 file for those that have the program ( I don't) to help learn it.

http://<a href="ed2k://|file|De%20Lucia,%20Paco%20-%20El%20Tempul.gp3|5607|39A6819F93FC615E852536ACC67E9934|/">De Lucia, Paco - El Tempul.gp3</a>



flamencoguru -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 12:25:08)

Hello Ron,

Holy smokes!!!! I'm flattered!! Gee, I didn't think that my version of Impetu would merit such an honor. Thanks. About the 2008 Challenge. Hmmmmm I don't know if my balls are big enough for that challenge. I'm going to take a peek at it but I have listened to it quite a few times and I've dreamt about playing it. I can't take the pressure!!!!

I wish everyone a Happy New Year. I'll see what I can muster up for 2008.

Un saludo, Errol

P.S. I think the 2007 award should go to Ricardo for that kick ass Solea por Bulerias. Just my opinion.



Ricardo -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 17:05:33)

quote:

The winner will receive this Silver Plated 6.5" cup on behalf of the Forum and will be inscribed ..

"ForoFlamenco Worldwide 2008 Flamenco Guitarist of the Year Award
...WINNER'S NAME
for the best interpretation of "El Tempul" by Paco de Lucia."

In addition your name will be featured on the Home Page as Flamenco Guitarist of the Year.

Not great moneywise.. but..

Anyway we can get some money put INSIDE The cup??[;)][:D]....euros preferably[8D]

quote:

What's your best guess on the moves for this passage?

Well I am going i with a golpe then i up then....[&:]....hey wait a minute....I better not give anything away until after the challenge![;)][:D]



Jan Willem -> RE: A 2008 challenge? (Jan. 7 2008 21:25:06)

quote:

P.S. I think the 2007 award should go to Ricardo for that kick ass Solea por Bulerias. Just my opinion.


I agree :-)....



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